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Old 01-09-2013, 07:29 AM   #81
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Excellent. This is what I was looking for, but I still want the LL-01 spec sheet. Does that even exist?
I tried looking but couldn't find it till now. I was thinking we could probably look at the numbers for some of the various ll01 rated oils and take the average? Then we could compare it to some of the 'lesser' oils and see if they come close, especially for shorter ocis?
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:37 AM   #82
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I tried looking but couldn't find it till now. I was thinking we could probably look at the numbers for some of the various ll01 rated oils and take the average? Then we could compare it to some of the 'lesser' oils and see if they come close, especially for shorter ocis?
I was thinking that too. It'd be easy to make a spreadsheet for it if all the other brands have spec sheets like Mobil 1.

EDIT:

I can't even get the other products' PDS sites to work. So I can't even try to compile some data for us.

Last edited by WDE46; 01-09-2013 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:53 AM   #83
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Okay that's fine but where are these specs? Where is the BMW LL-01 specification of HTHS > 3.5? I've just never seen it and I'm very curious.
Try this site for some of the BMW LL-01 specs: HTHS >= 3.5 and SA <= 1.6%

http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdd...l/default.html

You might find the BMW specific tests section of this link interesting:
http://www.eng.rpi-inc.ru/materials/...ON5/TNasch.pdf
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:19 AM   #84
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Try this site for some of the BMW LL-01 specs: HTHS >= 3.5 and SA <= 1.6%

http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdd...l/default.html

You might find the BMW specific tests section of this link interesting:
http://www.eng.rpi-inc.ru/materials/...ON5/TNasch.pdf
Good link. So I think one can use any syn oil that meets the above parameters. Depending on what's on sale. Thanks Shanneba!
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:23 AM   #85
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Try this site for some of the BMW LL-01 specs: HTHS >= 3.5 and SA <= 1.6%

http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdd...l/default.html

You might find the BMW specific tests section of this link interesting:
http://www.eng.rpi-inc.ru/materials/...ON5/TNasch.pdf
Excellent.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:36 AM   #86
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Here is another BMW approved oil, the document mentions some of the BMW engine test requirements:

http://www.top1oil.com/newsletters/2011/July.pdf

The BMW N52 test lasts 350 hours and is cycled through several stages to put heavy demands on the
lubricant. The high RPM cycle is interesting since it is kept near redline (6,800 RPM) for 50 hours with full load.
There are also several hours run at conditions to promote sludge formation in the engine. Furthermore,
there is a component that looks for aeration in the oil during operation as a critical parameter, since
aeration could increase wear. At the end of the test, the engine is disassembled and parts are rated for
wear, sludge, and varnish. This viscosity increase of the oil is also measured post-test.

The BMW N42 test is an additional and high tech wear test completed on a 4 cylinder engine on the
valvetronic valve train. With this test, wear to the metals is detectable by looking for radioactive isotopes
in the oil. This allows for fine and accurate wear rate measurements to be made.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:36 AM   #87
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Dang the first link is blocked at work. So it shows the LL-01 spec? Finally! That is exactly what we needed. Now we can decide for ourselves for the most part.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:39 AM   #88
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Dang the first link is blocked at work. So it shows the LL-01 spec? Finally! That is exactly what we needed. Now we can decide for ourselves for the most part.
I.. do.. not.. get..this. What is there to decide? BMW USA lays out four readily available recommended and approved oils with the cheapest being the the most obvious choice. No need to get cute. This stuff is already laid out for us.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:56 AM   #89
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I.. do.. not.. get..this. What is there to decide? BMW USA lays out four readily available recommended and approved oils with the cheapest being the the most obvious choice. No need to get cute. This stuff is already laid out for us.
Unfortunately the BMW NA web site lists Valvoline Synpower 5w-30 as "approved" but ONLY the Valvoline Synpower MST is actually "Approved" for BMWs and it is a LL-04 rated oil. It isn't readily available in stores. they have not updated the BMW NA web site to include the Castrol Edge with Syntec 0w-30 and 5w-40 that have been approved as LL-01 oils.....

The Pennzoil Plat European Formula also is not readily available and is not the same as the regular Pennzoil Plat 5w-30 usually found in the stores.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30

The SynPower 5w-30 normally found at Auto Parts stores is not a BMW LL-01 approved oil.

http://www.valvoline.com/promos/dexos.jsp

Product Grade dexos spec Other specifications
SynPower 5W-30 dexosTM1 ILSAC GF-5, API SN/Resource Conserving, ACEA A5
SynPower 5W-30 dexosTM1 ILSAC GF-5, API SN/Resource Conserving, ACEA A1
DuraBlend 5W-30 dexosTM1 ILSAC GF-5, API SN/Resource Conserving, ACEA A1
NextGen DuraBlend 5W-30 dexosTM1 ILSAC GF-5, API SN/Resource Conserving, ACEA A1
SynPower MST 5W-30 dexosTM2 API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4-04, ACEA C3-08, MB 229.51, BMW LL-04, VW 502.00/505.00/505.01
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Last edited by shanneba; 01-09-2013 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:57 AM   #90
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Unfortunately the BMW NA web site lists Valvoline Synpower 5w-30 as "approved" but ONLY the Valvoline Synpower MST is actually "Approved" for BMWs and it is a LL-04 rated oil. It isn't readily available in stores.

The Pennzoil Plat European Formula also is not readily available and is not the same as the regular Pennzoil Plat 5w-30 usually found in the stores.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30

The SynPower 5w-30 normally found at Auto Parts stores is not a BMW LL-01 approved oil.

http://www.valvoline.com/promos/dexos.jsp

Product Grade dexos spec Other specifications
SynPower 5W-30 dexosTM1 ILSAC GF-5, API SN/Resource Conserving, ACEA A5
SynPower 5W-30 dexosTM1 ILSAC GF-5, API SN/Resource Conserving, ACEA A1
DuraBlend 5W-30 dexosTM1 ILSAC GF-5, API SN/Resource Conserving, ACEA A1
NextGen DuraBlend 5W-30 dexosTM1 ILSAC GF-5, API SN/Resource Conserving, ACEA A1
SynPower MST 5W-30 dexosTM2 API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4-04, ACEA C3-08, MB 229.51, BMW LL-04, VW 502.00/505.00/505.01
Right, what I mean is the top 3 people normally use (i've never even bothered with valvoline or pennzoil)

Genuine
Mobil 1 0W-40
Castrol 0W-30 Euro

I've never even physically laid hands (or eyes) on anything else

For all intents and purposes, lets just say use BMW only. easier!
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Last edited by Mango; 01-09-2013 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:00 AM   #91
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I.. do.. not.. get..this. What is there to decide? BMW USA lays out four readily available recommended and approved oils with the cheapest being the the most obvious choice. No need to get cute. This stuff is already laid out for us.
Yeah but we can make a list of other oils that meet those specs. Who knows if they have them all? Maybe they do.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:04 AM   #92
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Yeah but we can make a list of other oils that meet those specs. Who knows if they have them all? Maybe they do.
I guess you could. Wouldn't hurt. I still wouldn't touch anything else. Genuine 5W-30 and Castrol 0W-30 are the best, based on wear tests I've seen over at BITOG. I've seen Genuine 5W-30 described as a "sleeper oil" because it's test results are astonishing (just about equal to Castrol 0W-30). I've read about some car enthusiasts of other makes (like Corvette track guys) using BMW oil!

If it's good enough for the Alpina B7, M5, AMG S65, etc, it's good enough for our little old E46s!
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:06 AM   #93
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I have used Pennzoil, although I am not sure if it was the European formula or not. I am going to change the oil every 7500 miles, so in another 3500, my car will get some Mobil 1 love.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #94
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i have used pennzoil, although i am not sure if it was the european formula or not. I am going to change the oil every 7500 miles, so in another 3500, my car will get some mobil 1 love.
0w40, not xw30
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:01 PM   #95
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0w40, not xw30
I think I may have 5W30. So not the european one. Oh well. I am not too concerned.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:21 PM   #96
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I think I may have 5W30. So not the european one. Oh well. I am not too concerned.
you should be. as seen in the PDFs posted, BMW (and german engine manufacturers in general) puts high demand on their oil requirements. see that reference to timing chain stretch?
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:45 PM   #97
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meh... the specs arent that different and i dont intend to run it for more than 3000 more miles. ll01 for me from then on. stupid jiffy dupe.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:28 PM   #98
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I think I may have 5W30. So not the european one. Oh well. I am not too concerned.
Read my "M1 5W/30" thread. My baptism here...the good old days!
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:38 PM   #99
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meh... the specs arent that different and i dont intend to run it for more than 3000 more miles. ll01 for me from then on. stupid jiffy dupe.
3,000 miles is WAY too soon. With a good synthetic, you're actually hurting your car by changing it every 3,000 miles.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:40 PM   #100
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3000 MORE miles. i have already driven 4000.
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