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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 03-28-2013, 12:50 PM   #1
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ATF rads FPSRUSSIA's house

http://m.onlineathens.com/local-news...rnesville-home
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:24 PM   #2
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Outrageous
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #3
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seems like an adequate use of resources. raid house, take nothing, make no arrests.
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:11 PM   #4
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Gotta distract attention away from Fast and Furious
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:27 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
Gotta distract attention away from Fast and Furious
Random question... Have you ever had to participate on a raid you didn't agree with...Something like the above raid? I'm sure there had to be agents that were just like while completing the above raid but didn't want to face consequences of not doing it? How does that work in the LEO world?
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:20 AM   #6
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Random question... Have you ever had to participate on a raid you didn't agree with...Something like the above raid? I'm sure there had to be agents that were just like while completing the above raid but didn't want to face consequences of not doing it? How does that work in the LEO world?
I have been in numerous entries and operations with either FBI, DEA, US Marshals, or a multi-jurisdictional/multi-agency task force. All of that stuff has been either fugitive or drug related. Lots of fun stuff that I didn't have a problem with.

The one and only time I did anything with the BATFE was when an informant of theirs bought an IED from a guy in my city, and there was hundreds of pounds of PETN and other nasty explosives, and he was also making illegal machine gun parts.

If I were tasked to do a warrant on something I didn't agree with, I can abstain on constitutional grounds. That said, there's no requirement for us to cooperate with federal agencies. Most are pretty decent to deal with, but certain agencies like the BATFE and FBI are very heavily populated by intellectuals and not "real cops". There are a lot of people with accounting and law degrees, or language skills, so you see people who think they know a lot and therefore are better at your job than you are because you're a po-dunk cop. Had that attitude once from a Fed, and I basically returned it back with a very obvious insinuation that I was looking for a fight. That didn't go anywhere though. I'm generally not known to be a very "diplomatic" person face-to-face.
The benefit of a federal agency taking the lead on an investigation and warrant is that they assume all of the liability for the procedural issues. Sounds sort of bad, but LE agencies will do a lot more if they know they're not on the hook for the civil fallout. We could give a shit less what happens to the feds. If they get sued and we don't, we don't care. If they try to get us to do something that will get our own tit in a ringer, we'll generally cut it off right there. Stupid people won't, but those of us with half a brain can see that stuff coming a mile away.
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:21 PM   #7
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^^ thanks for the reply..very interesting.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:31 PM   #8
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Every time I've been on a warrant, I've never once seen the actual warrant. The information they give us is generally pretty basic. Who, What, When, Where. The "Why" is a typically a general overview of "we have evidence that there's ______, so we're going to execute a search/arrest warrant." We aren't typically given a lot of in-depth information unless it's pertinent. In the explosives case above, we had a lot of info because it was a safety issue due to the massive amount of illegal explosives the guy had. With other things, like drug warrants, we get the general info, who's there, what to expect, and we go.



Personally, I will be curious to read the warrant once it's posted online. It's only a matter of time before a FOIA request is done and the warrant is posted up.
I can't help but wonder if this is the current administration "sending a message" of some kind. Someone somewhere got some bad info, or they're just throwing shit on the wall and seeing if anything sticks.
The BATFE is regarded as being one of the most political federal agencies under the DoJ. A long time ago I made a determination that I would never work for the BATFE because I just can't put up with the shit they are constantly pulling. A lot of bad incidents in this country have been at the hands of the ATF.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:26 AM   #9
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Reedo. Would you raid FPSrussias house given the oppurtunity?
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:27 AM   #10
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There is certainly some controversy with FPSRussia, especially following the murder. I would have to read the warrant first. If it was a legit warrant, that would be one thing. However, I doubt it was all that accurate since they didn't have anything. If I thought it was a fishing expedition, no. The ATF is already on a short leash by local law enforcement after F&F.

But here's the thing- I think people are using the term "raid" much like the media uses the term "gunned down" every time someone is shot by the police. It's inflammatory and likely not the correct explanation. I'm guessing that this warrant was a knock and announce search warrant where they knocked, someone answered and they walked in calmly. Hardly a "raid".
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:37 AM   #11
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There is certainly some controversy with FPSRussia, especially following the murder. I would have to read the warrant first. If it was a legit warrant, that would be one thing. However, I doubt it was all that accurate since they didn't have anything. If I thought it was a fishing expedition, no. The ATF is already on a short leash by local law enforcement after F&F.

But here's the thing- I think people are using the term "raid" much like the media uses the term "gunned down" every time someone is shot by the police. It's inflammatory and likely not the correct explanation. I'm guessing that this warrant was a knock and announce search warrant where they knocked, someone answered and they walked in calmly. Hardly a "raid".
Probably very true...never really thought about that. The ATF just seems to hit home run after home run. I know above you said you could sit out a raid/warrant execution based on constitutional rights, however would you be frowned upon and given bitch duty in essence or is it a respected decision by higher ups. I would hope the latter but im assuming it's the former. It seems there can be a lot of tension between state units and federal units. How is the cooperation on the state level between units?(County/City, State Police and Sheriffs departments).

Sorry for picking your brain, I just love learning about this kind of crap, good to have insight how it all works.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:39 AM   #12
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:21 PM   #13
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Sorry for picking your brain, I just love learning about this kind of crap, good to have insight how it all works.
Adam is doing the initial research in anticipation of a future raid by the MD ATF branch.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:35 PM   #14
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Probably very true...never really thought about that. The ATF just seems to hit home run after home run. I know above you said you could sit out a raid/warrant execution based on constitutional rights, however would you be frowned upon and given bitch duty in essence or is it a respected decision by higher ups. I would hope the latter but im assuming it's the former. It seems there can be a lot of tension between state units and federal units. How is the cooperation on the state level between units?(County/City, State Police and Sheriffs departments).

Sorry for picking your brain, I just love learning about this kind of crap, good to have insight how it all works.
If I opted out, my Sgts would respect the decision. We actually have no obligation to participate. Our policy says that we will try to cooperate with other agencies, but we are not mandated to. Our policy also mandates that we must not do anything illegal or unconstitutional, so if I use the policy as my basis, they would have to honor it.

ATF does suck- don't get me wrong. There are other federal agencies that are much better to deal with. Without listing off everything from everyone, a lot of it comes down to the individual agents we deal with.

A couple years ago we were contacted at midnight about a major drug operation they had stumbled upon, and a drug cartel stash house was in our city. The FBI agent in charge came in and introduced himself and immediately told us he used to be a Minneapolis cop for XX years. He was smart, because he knew that this made us trust him more and actually trust that he was a real cop. A lot of other guys I've dealt with in the FBI, DEA, etc who haven't been prior LEOs don't get this and they tend not to garner that credibility. They don't think the same way we local cops do with relation to officer safety, tactics and whatnot. We "locals" tend to be much more tactically conscious and sound, we work more towards being tactical smart, and we don't act complacent.

Last summer we had an FBI task force searching for a fugitive who shot at police in New Mexico with an AK. We all met out front of the PD and I put in my front rifle plate. They all looked at me and one actually asked why I was putting it in. What part of AK did you guys not process?? SAOAFR
We locals were also the only ones moving up to the house with rifles.

Generally speaking, it's an uneasy truce with feds. It's not as bad as it was years ago. My dad was a cop for 35yrs. The stories he had of the 80s and 90s where there were knock-down-drag-out cop vs fed brawls in parking lots and bars were pretty entertaining. The older cop movies where the feds and locals are arguing about jurisdiction are based on the way things really were back then.
In terms of local vs local, it really depends on who you're talking about. For the most part, we get along great amongst ourselves. One state trooper is on the shit list in our county, but everyone likes all of the other troopers and we realize this one trooper is just an angry bitch.
A neighboring agency in another county always calls us for assists (we're on a county border), as opposed to another bordering agency that is inside of their own county. This is because they don't get along well. It's like a cold war between them. We get along great with both of these agencies though.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:11 PM   #15
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Just saw it on the news.

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Seeming to contradict the ATF's statement, Franklin County Sheriff Stevie Thomas told WHLR that Tuesday's raids were in connection with the investigation into the suspected murder of Myers's former business partner, Keith Ratliff, who was found dead from a single gunshot to the head in January in the office of FPS Industries, the weapons testing business he owned.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...6pLid%3D291885

So the russian did it?
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