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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 01-13-2013, 11:41 PM   #1
Rush4theYehO
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Ml28BphAkSQ

Thoughts?


And wtf is NATO mud?
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:19 AM   #2
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It's a pretty neat idea, and it looks like a blast to shoot. Operationally, it's very limited. Pistol caliber long guns and subguns are being phased out by most special operations groups, military tactical teams like FBI HRT and DEA FAST, and law enforcement agencies and tactical teams.
I can see a lot of applicability with this weapon in the European market, but not in the US market.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:27 AM   #3
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There are standardized "dirts" for weapons testing, but I didn't think it was decided by NATO.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:22 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by mkodama View Post
There are standardized "dirts" for weapons testing, but I didn't think it was decided by NATO.

From one of the comments:

"NATO mud" doesn't refer to the material, but to the testing procedure. Not sure what the standard is today, but it used to be that any weapon going through the mud test had to go through a dozen separate mud 'baths', then after the last one had to be able to fire five consecutive shots cleanly in order to pass.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:39 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
It's a pretty neat idea, and it looks like a blast to shoot. Operationally, it's very limited. Pistol caliber long guns and subguns are being phased out by most special operations groups, military tactical teams like FBI HRT and DEA FAST, and law enforcement agencies and tactical teams.
I can see a lot of applicability with this weapon in the European market, but not in the US market.

Are they switching to SBR rifles?
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:12 PM   #6
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Are they switching to SBR rifles?
Not necessarily SBRs, but rifles-yes. 5.56/.223 and 6.8SPC loads have far better performance and lethality than pistol rounds, longer range, more precision, and better barrier defeating properties, including punching through soft armor (which pistol rounds won't do). Additionally, barrier blind and urban rifle loads have a lower propensity of over-penetration than pistol rounds. FBI stats have indicated that a greater percentage of rifle rounds are recovered inside the body of the suspect(s) than pistol or shotgun rounds. This is done by percentage of incidents compared to overall incidents where that weapon option was used.

Pistol rounds are known to suck when putting bad guys down, and lengthening the barrel does not make them any more lethal. You just get better accuracy, longer range and higher rate of fire than you do with a pistol. When the bullet hits the meat however, it's still the same as if you shot them with a pistol.

Special operations units needing compact suppressed weapons have largely moved away from the MP5s, and some switched to the MP7A1, which fires a 4.6x30mm "subcaliber" type round. Many of the units that have used the MP7A1 have subsequently ditched due to poor performance, opting for .300BLK subsonic loads out of suppressed SBRs, which are far more effective and lethal.
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