E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > General Off-Topic

General Off-Topic
Everything not about BMWs. Posts must be "primetime" safe and in good taste. You must be logged in to see sub-forums.
Click here to browse all new posts.

View Poll Results: que?
<10% could do it 21 23.33%
10 - 50 % 24 26.67%
would def need to be greater than 50 % 36 40.00%
JONJON > 9 10.00%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 01-09-2013, 09:36 PM   #21
JonJon
Tinfoilhatatarian
 
JonJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: One of the most evil states ever to exist
Posts: 3,475
My Ride: .
Send a message via AIM to JonJon
Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
does the 3% still apply today? does it take into account that the present day US military is vastly superior in armament?
Military took an oath. I feel many would hold that oath, not face off their countrymen which include their own families.

Either way... The largest armed force in the country?.
American gun owners

Sh!t.... PA hunters alone would out number ALL of the US's armed forces
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
I agree with JonJon.

Last edited by JonJon; 01-09-2013 at 09:42 PM.
JonJon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:37 PM   #22
Stankia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 55
My Ride: 4.2FSI S-Line
People who voted more than 50% are not right in the head, that's 150 million people! It would only take a couple of million men to crash this whole party. We only have 1.5 million active personnel in our military and half of them would probably join the revolutionaries anyway.
__________________
DOGE Crew

Last edited by Stankia; 01-09-2013 at 09:41 PM.
Stankia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:40 PM   #23
k2pilot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 340
My Ride: Z4MC & B8 S4
If military success were purely a matter of weaponry, then the Iraq and Afghanistan fiascos would have been over ages ago. If there were some modern american revolution going on it's not like the current government is going to just go about blowing up citizens who may or may not be insurgents. Given the 3% statistic, they'd actually have fairly low odds of getting an actual target, even with a high degree of intelligence, chances are it wouldn't work.

It's like the Millenium Challenge story in Malcolm Gladwell's Blink,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

The US military intelligence ain't all it's cracked up to be either..
__________________
Quote:
"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams
k2pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:46 PM   #24
XKxRome0ox
Black and Proud
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: los angeles
Posts: 10,258
My Ride: is totaled
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
Military took an oath. I feel many would hold that oath, not face off their countrymen which include their own families.

Either way... The largest armed force in the country?.
American gun owners
if americans across all the states rose up ... then that'd probably work
but if the uprising were to be concentrated in a few states in a certain region, then it might make a difference

also i'm not familiar with the military oath
i just looked it up and i see ... "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderDave
Fill that hole in your soul by buying more material goods
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=15286051
buy my sedan rear seats (gray leather)

sell me sedan A pillars!! (black fabric)
XKxRome0ox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:47 PM   #25
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,487
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
if americans across all the states rose up ... then that'd probably work
but if the uprising were to be concentrated in a few states in a certain region, then it might make a difference

also i'm not familiar with the military oath
i just looked it up and i see ... "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
I never swore to obey anybody.
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:48 PM   #26
pancakes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: awesomeville
Posts: 86
My Ride: BMW M, VW GTI, BIKE
I think if the government were to neglect the constitution, it would start with something subtle enough that most people wouldn't recognize it as something to defend against.

Last edited by pancakes; 01-09-2013 at 09:49 PM.
pancakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:49 PM   #27
XKxRome0ox
Black and Proud
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: los angeles
Posts: 10,258
My Ride: is totaled
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
I never swore to obey anybody.
that's next in that oath...



anyway
back it up
it really depends on the reason for the revolution
because that'd influence how many people support the revolution or not
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderDave
Fill that hole in your soul by buying more material goods
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=15286051
buy my sedan rear seats (gray leather)

sell me sedan A pillars!! (black fabric)
XKxRome0ox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:50 PM   #28
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,487
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
that's next in that oath...
?

The oath I took had no mention of obedience, or UCMJ.
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:52 PM   #29
peytonracer4
:D
 
peytonracer4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Valparaiso, IN
Posts: 6,517
My Ride: '00 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by pancakes View Post
I think if the government were to neglect the constitution, it would start with something subtle enough that most people wouldn't recognize it as something to defend against.
this
__________________
choose to click or forever hold your peace ;)
peytonracer4 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:54 PM   #30
XKxRome0ox
Black and Proud
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: los angeles
Posts: 10,258
My Ride: is totaled
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
?

The oath I took had no mention of obedience, or UCMJ.
oh okay
can you show me the oath you took?
like i said, i'm not familiar with the oath .. i just googled and found
http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderDave
Fill that hole in your soul by buying more material goods
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=15286051
buy my sedan rear seats (gray leather)

sell me sedan A pillars!! (black fabric)
XKxRome0ox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 09:56 PM   #31
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 893
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
does the 3% still apply today? does it take into account that the present day US military is vastly superior in armament?
If we judge history correctly, over 30% of the military will "defect" and fight with the people. Most soldiers are not going to shoot their brothers, their fathers, and their friends. The "military" is actually very weak if the SHTF here. Unlike places like Syria, the US military is made up of rational people WITH something to lose.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 10:02 PM   #32
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,487
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Quote:
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."
Oath of enlistment vs oath of office. It's a subtle, yet important, difference.

You did post one correct oath, though.

Keep in mind that taking either oath confers precisely zero legal obligation on a person, only a moral one. A service member is not legally bound to support and defend. Only morally. Every service member, though, is legally bound to obey their general and specific orders.

And before anyone complains, of course I mean "lawful orders".

Realistically, when it comes down to the question of whether to stand or desert, the question running through most people's minds, especially if it comes to a combat situation, is not "what does the constitution say?" It's "what's my battle buddy doing?"
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 10:04 PM   #33
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,487
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
If we judge history correctly, over 30% of the military will "defect" and fight with the people. Most soldiers are not going to shoot their brothers, their fathers, and their friends. The "military" is actually very weak if the SHTF here. Unlike places like Syria, the US military is made up of rational people WITH something to lose.
Most combat veterans are more strongly bonded to their combat buddies than anyone at home. Especially when it comes to a combat situation.
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 10:12 PM   #34
torqueaholic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: des plaines, IL
Posts: 76
My Ride: '03 Acura TL
If y'all don't stop, I'ma post pictures of PENOR!!!
torqueaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 10:36 PM   #35
CollinsE90
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The bar
Posts: 340
My Ride: 330i
There will never be a logical argument for an assault weapon ban that will convince me. We banned legit assault rifles in 1986.
__________________
CollinsE90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 11:04 PM   #36
5speed5er
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Charlotte,NC
Posts: 309
My Ride: TreTreFive
Quote:
Originally Posted by k2pilot View Post
If there were some modern american revolution going on it's not like the current government is going to just go about blowing up citizens who may or may not be insurgents.
I wouldn't assume that at all.
__________________
5speed5er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2013, 11:24 PM   #37
Raymond42262
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The South
Posts: 453
My Ride: Is German
I think the percentage is much less than 10 percent. Currently , it only takes about 5,6 people in the country to make policy decisions and tell the others what to do or which way to vote. It happens everyday when Congress makes new legislation. Boehner or Reid decide this is the way we are going to go with a vote, they get a few prominent members to go their way and the rest follow behind. And the American people don't do a thing about it.

If you have a handful of charismatic leaders, have the ability to control or manipulate the press and can make promises of enriching those that follow you, you can do it with very few people. You don't need to have an armed militia like in 1775.

That is how Hitler did it in 1932 and Obama is doing the same thing in 2013. Look at the parallels and tell me they are not similar.
__________________
"The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, someone to love, and something to hope for."....Joseph Addison
--------------------
Raymond42262 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 12:00 AM   #38
nardog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sacramento/Bay area, Ca
Posts: 60
My Ride: e34, totaled e46



I think that this is fitting. Our armed forces would not want to go house to house, more technology or not, it would be nearly impossible to win. Look at how the US did in Vietnam against a force that was ages behind us in terms of technology and advanced weaponry
__________________
nardog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 12:04 AM   #39
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox View Post
does the 3% still apply today? does it take into account that the present day US military is vastly superior in armament?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
Military took an oath. I feel many would hold that oath, not face off their countrymen which include their own families.

Either way... The largest armed force in the country?.
American gun owners

Sh!t.... PA hunters alone would out number ALL of the US's armed forces
Exactly. I have already had this conversation with many servicemen and their loyalty would lie with the people not the government.
__________________
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2013, 12:12 AM   #40
v8 5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: New Jarzy, New Jarzy
Posts: 343
My Ride: 6 speed BMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
Military took an oath. I feel many would hold that oath, not face off their countrymen which include their own families.

Either way... The largest armed force in the country?.
American gun owners

Sh!t.... PA hunters alone would out number ALL of the US's armed forces
Citizens have no protection against aircraft / missiles
__________________
Gutted with a Getrag



We have 4 websites within the family.
v8 5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use