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Political Talk
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:56 AM   #41
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When a guy that owns that many guns says he's going to start killing people, I'm going to take his word for it.

You can laugh it off if you want, but this kind of BS is textbook crazy.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:04 AM   #42
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Am I the only one who didn't think he was going to go an just kill random people? To me it was pretty clear that he was talking about defending his right and to fight those that want to strip him of that right. Was it the smartest thing to do? Definitely not. Would any reasonable person without an agenda actually believe that he was going to go and start offing a bunch of innocent civilians? Definitely not.
That's an interesting position. In the wake of the movie theater shooting and the school shooting, many gun control opponents suggested that the shooters telegraphed their intentions with their statements many months prior to their acts and the real solution would have been to listen to their statements and do something about them. Now we have a guy who said, outright, that he would start shooting people and your response is to say "oh, he didn't mean it"?

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Old 01-12-2013, 11:08 AM   #43
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That's an interesting position. In the wake of the movie theater shooting and the school shooting, many gun control opponents suggested that the shooters telegraphed their intentions with their statements many months prior to their acts and the real solution would have been to listen to their statements and do something about them. Now we have a guy who said, outright, that he would start shooting people and your response is to say "oh, he didn't mean it"?
I didn't say "he didn't mean it." My point is, I think everyone latched onto a single phrase and not the entire statement in context. For example, there are millions of gun owners today driving around with their guns. One or two of them (on a daily basis) gets into a road rage situation where the words "I'm gonna f***ing kill you" will get used.....should we be scared of those statements? Do we strip everyone of their CCWs for that?

My point was simply that his didn't mean that he was going to go out and start executing innocent people eating at TGI Fridays. To me, it sounds like he was sick and tired of his rights being trampled, and he stated that he is prepared to fight and kill to protect those rights....thats what I got from his rant. He does not come across (to me anyway) as some deranged Adam Lanza or Private Pyle that is going to put the camera down, go outside, and start blasting people away. Again, I don't think it was the smartest thing to do (especially since his livelyhood circles around firearms) but to think that he was going to actually kill innocent people is also nuts.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:11 AM   #44
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When a guy that owns that many guns says he's going to start killing people, I'm going to take his word for it.

You can laugh it off if you want, but this kind of BS is textbook crazy.
He still owns all those guns, and can still go out and off a bunch of people. He only lost his CCW permit. If I am going to break and law and murder a bunch of innocent people, I don't really care if the guns I am using are being carried legally. Stripping him of his CCW is nothing more than a political play.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:12 AM   #45
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I didn't say "he didn't mean it." My point is, I think everyone latched onto a single phrase and not the entire statement in context. For example, there are millions of gun owners today driving around with their guns. One or two of them (on a daily basis) gets into a road rage situation where the words "I'm gonna f***ing kill you" will get used.....should we be scared of those statements? Do we strip everyone of their CCWs for that?

My point was simply that his didn't mean that he was going to go out and start executing innocent people eating at TGI Fridays. To me, it sounds like he was sick and tired of his rights being trampled, and he stated that he is prepared to fight and kill to protect those rights....thats what I got from his rant. He does not come across (to me anyway) as some deranged Adam Lanza or Private Pyle that is going to put the camera down, go outside, and start blasting people away.
I think we need to start taking language like that more seriously. When someone states in clear terms that once he reaches a certain point of frustration that he's going to go out and start killing people, that's not acceptable language in a civil society.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:13 AM   #46
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He still owns all those guns, and can still go out and off a bunch of people. He only lost his CCW permit. If I am going to break and law and murder a bunch of innocent people, I don't really care if the guns I am using are being carried legally. Stripping him of his CCW is nothing more than a political play.
Political plays can be pretty useful, though, when you're trying to make a point about acceptable behavior.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:14 AM   #47
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It's one thing to be passionate, it's another to make threats.
This is so true. There's so much better ways to get your point across than to make threats. Especially generalized threats.
It also doesn't help that he used a mass media source to make the threats. It magnifies it times 10 compared to just saying it to your friends.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:15 AM   #48
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If the NRA is smart, they will throw this guy to the wolves. He's the textbook example of the stereotype the NRA is trying to avoid.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:38 AM   #49
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Political plays can be pretty useful, though, when you're trying to make a point about acceptable behavior.
It is dangerous messing with rights to achieve censorship.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:45 AM   #50
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I think we need to start taking language like that more seriously. When someone states in clear terms that once he reaches a certain point of frustration that he's going to go out and start killing people, that's not acceptable language in a civil society.
Language is again, highly dependant on who it comes from. I had this conversation with my employees the other day. Some people can make gay jokes and sexual harassment jokes, and it's all good, while others will offend, even if the joke is the same.

Likewise, I think he (the CEO) is trying to make a strong point by using a poor choice of words. I can say "Lair pissed me off, I'm gonna take my jeep and run over a bunch of school kids" are you going to strip me of my driving license? This isn't pre-crime in minority report. Sure, we should keep an eye out of this behavior, put these people on the police "sh!t list" but to start stripping rights is a slippery slope IMHO.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:59 AM   #51
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It is dangerous messing with rights to achieve censorship.
It's not censorship, which is a prior restraint. It's calling people to account for their speech, which is perfectly legal under current law.
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Language is again, highly dependant on who it comes from. I had this conversation with my employees the other day. Some people can make gay jokes and sexual harassment jokes, and it's all good, while others will offend, even if the joke is the same.

Likewise, I think he (the CEO) is trying to make a strong point by using a poor choice of words. I can say "Lair pissed me off, I'm gonna take my jeep and run over a bunch of school kids" are you going to strip me of my driving license? This isn't pre-crime in minority report. Sure, we should keep an eye out of this behavior, put these people on the police "sh!t list" but to start stripping rights is a slippery slope IMHO.
Actually, it's not okay to make gay jokes and sexual harassment jokes.

Also: they were looking out for his behavior. They made the determination that his behavior, which was stating that he would go out and kill people based on his disagreement with public policy, was sufficient cause to revoke his CCW privilege. You and I might disagree about where the revocation line should be drawn, but the fact remains that this guy's personal judgment is highly suspect and merits some level of scrutiny.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:59 AM   #52
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Language is again, highly dependant on who it comes from. I had this conversation with my employees the other day. Some people can make gay jokes and sexual harassment jokes, and it's all good, while others will offend, even if the joke is the same.

Likewise, I think he (the CEO) is trying to make a strong point by using a poor choice of words. I can say "Lair pissed me off, I'm gonna take my jeep and run over a bunch of school kids" are you going to strip me of my driving license? This isn't pre-crime in minority report. Sure, we should keep an eye out of this behavior, put these people on the police "sh!t list" but to start stripping rights is a slippery slope IMHO.
With no context, or biographical background on an individual, it's hard to discern intent and if his threat is viable. I guess it's a matter of perspective. Those close to him and know him well probably would say he's harmless while the rest of America won't. Using military terms, threat is sometimes defined as: threat = capability + intent. This person has the capability (with his weapons) and has conveyed an intent.

At the end of the day,, I would think authorities and most people would have to take his threat at face value and take his word for it. Imagine if this individual did act on his threat and no one did anything previously.

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Old 01-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #53
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To me, it sounds like he was sick and tired of his rights being trampled, and he stated that he is prepared to fight and kill to protect those rights....thats what I got from his rant.
Since previous AW bans have been ruled as constitutional and the administration as taken no action yet, just which of his rights have been trampled on? Certainly not any of his 2nd amd rights, that is for damn sure.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:25 PM   #54
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am i the only one who didn't think he was going to go an just kill random people? To me it was pretty clear that he was talking about defending his right and to fight those that want to strip him of that right. Was it the smartest thing to do? Definitely not. Would any reasonable person without an agenda actually believe that he was going to go and start offing a bunch of innocent civilians? Definitely not.
+1 I could be his next door neighbor and I wouldn't feel threatened by him. I know some guys like this and they're not going to go shoot random people.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:41 PM   #55
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Anyway: good discussion, everyone. Thanks for keeping things civil.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:34 PM   #56
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+1 I could be his next door neighbor and I wouldn't feel threatened by him. I know some guys like this and they're not going to go shoot random people.
That's what they said about the kid that shot up Sandy Hook.

I'm keeping an eye on anyone who's crazy enough to publish a video in which he talks about killing random people because he's mad.

At least steps have been taken to contain that threat. He might carry out his threat, but people will be aware of him, and the smart ones will be miles away when he snaps.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:37 PM   #57
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Anyway: good discussion, everyone. Thanks for keeping things civil.
Yeah thanks folks. Thank goodness I didn't have to slam the banhammer.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:37 PM   #58
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That's what they said about the kid that shot up Sandy Hook.

I'm keeping an eye on anyone who's crazy enough to publish a video in which he talks about killing random people because he's mad.

At least steps have been taken to contain that threat. He might carry out his threat, but people will be aware of him, and the smart ones will be miles away when he snaps.
I don't believe he said the word random, which in a case like this, is a pretty powerful word.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:50 PM   #59
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Yeah? Which people did he specify?

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"I'm not letting my country be ruled by a dictator. I'm not letting anybody take my guns! If it goes one inch further, I'm going to start killing people."
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:08 PM   #60
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Yeah? Which people did he specify?
He didn't specify, you did by saying the word random.
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