E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-17-2013, 07:38 PM   #21
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,483
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
Again, you didn't watch the video - a vast majority of the illegal firearms (yes) that are trafficked come from a handfull of dealers, and dealers can't be inspected more than once a year, nor are they required to keep a log of their inventory. Also, they are not required to cooperate with authorities? If this is true, how to you think we can enforce existing laws on the books with those restrictions? Did you catch the part where they mentioned there is no current director of the ATF, and there hasn't been on for 7 years? Ridiculous.
I watched the video. It was a liberal Jon Stewart rant that brought up nothing new.

What "handful" of dealers is this providing all the "illegal" firearms? Who says dealers can't be inspected more than once a year? You think business owners don't keep inventories? Did you take "how to run a business 101" pre-requisites? Part of owning a business is knowing what's in stock.

In what way are business owners not required to cooperate with authorities when it comes to keeping purchase records?

Oh no! No BATFE director??? Because he has to be Senate confirmed? If this were a priority, why weren't the Democrats confirming a director while they've controlled the Senate for the majority of the time the post has been empty? Who's been nominated for the post in the past 6 years? Who's been president for 4 of those 6 years the post has been empty?

Why is this just being mentioned now? Oh yeah, that's right, we can have a justifiable emotional reaction.
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:39 PM   #22
Iceman00
I screwed up and can't post
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FLA
Posts: 2,838
My Ride: E90 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
any of the guns I own could shoot a depleted uranium bullet as long as it was the correct caliber.

And automatic weapons are not illegal to own. But tell me, if you can, when was the last time a crime was committed with a legally purchased automatic weapon.
They are, unless you have a class III license and are a dealer (using it for demonstration purposes) Unless I'm incorrect on that.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you the majority of violent crime (according to FBI statistics) are with *gasp* firearms. Let's be clear here, no on (in this thread) is calling for the banning of weapons, I asking what can be done to minimize the risk of these weapons getting into the wrong hands? Of should we just ignore the problem?
Iceman00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:41 PM   #23
Iceman00
I screwed up and can't post
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FLA
Posts: 2,838
My Ride: E90 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
I watched the video. It was a liberal Jon Stewart rant that brought up nothing new.

What "handful" of dealers is this providing all the "illegal" firearms? Who says dealers can't be inspected more than once a year? You think business owners don't keep inventories? Did you take "how to run a business 101" pre-requisites? Part of owning a business is knowing what's in stock.

In what way are business owners not required to cooperate with authorities when it comes to keeping purchase records?

Oh no! No BATFE director??? Because he has to be Senate confirmed? If this were a priority, why weren't the Democrats confirming a director while they've controlled the Senate for the majority of the time the post has been empty? Who's been nominated for the post in the past 6 years? Who's been president for 4 of those 6 years the post has been empty?

Why is this just being mentioned now? Oh yeah, that's right, we can have a justifiable emotional reaction.
According to Stewart, it's part of the law that was snuck into the patriot act. I'm going to double check it to make sure.
Iceman00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:41 PM   #24
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,483
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
They are, unless you have a class III license and are a dealer (using it for demonstration purposes) Unless I'm incorrect on that.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you the majority of violent crime (according to FBI statistics) are with *gasp* firearms. Let's be clear here, no on (in this thread) is calling for the banning of weapons, I asking what can be done to minimize the risk of these weapons getting into the wrong hands? Of should we just ignore the problem?
No, they're not illegal to own, as long as you fill out the proper paperwork.

Source on your statistic of the "majority" of violent crime being committed with firearms? I'd be interested to see that one.
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:44 PM   #25
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 815
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
How can we enforce existing gun laws when law enforcement's hands are tied? Why are we ok with the NRA (and the GOP) blocking our attempts to control illegal fire arms? Could it be they aren't looking out for gun owners, but rather manufactures and dealers?

And why isn't this more talked about?
The distinction people are trying to make is that there isn't such a thing as an illegal firearm. There is such a thing as a person illegally owning a firearm. There is also such a thing as a person committing an illegal act with a firearm. The person makes it illegal, not the firearm.

At least that's my understanding.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig

Last edited by evolved; 01-17-2013 at 07:44 PM.
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:47 PM   #26
325seeeye
Core Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rocket City
Posts: 1,163
My Ride: 325Ci, e36 325is
Ban murder. Oh wait, goddammit.
__________________
325seeeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:48 PM   #27
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,483
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
maybe we should make it a felony to buy a firearm for someone else.

Oh, wait. Nvm.
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 07:49 PM   #28
Iceman00
I screwed up and can't post
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FLA
Posts: 2,838
My Ride: E90 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
No, they're not illegal to own, as long as you fill out the proper paperwork.

Source on your statistic of the "majority" of violent crime being committed with firearms? I'd be interested to see that one.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-7

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...obbery-table-3

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...-assault-table

There is more out there - if you want to see it.
Iceman00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:16 PM   #29
JonJon
Tinfoilhatatarian
 
JonJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: One of the most evil states ever to exist
Posts: 3,473
My Ride: .
Send a message via AIM to JonJon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
They are, unless you have a class III license and are a dealer (using it for demonstration purposes) Unless I'm incorrect on that.
What? You're in over your head, in fact you're drowning
Go educate yourself before trying to debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post

I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you the majority of violent crime (according to FBI statistics) are with *gasp* firearms. Let's be clear here, no on (in this thread) is calling for the banning of weapons, I asking what can be done to minimize the risk of these weapons getting into the wrong hands? Of should we just ignore the problem?
tell me how many people are killed every year by NFA weapons

Go
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
I agree with JonJon.
JonJon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:38 PM   #30
Iceman00
I screwed up and can't post
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FLA
Posts: 2,838
My Ride: E90 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
The distinction people are trying to make is that there isn't such a thing as an illegal firearm. There is such a thing as a person illegally owning a firearm. There is also such a thing as a person committing an illegal act with a firearm. The person makes it illegal, not the firearm.

At least that's my understanding.
Ok, fair point.
Iceman00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:38 PM   #31
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
The libs are getting burned in this thread.

I'll stay on the sideline and keep reading for entertainment.
__________________
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:39 PM   #32
Iceman00
I screwed up and can't post
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FLA
Posts: 2,838
My Ride: E90 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
What? You're in over your head, in fact you're drowning
Go educate yourself before trying to debate


tell me how many people are killed every year by NFA weapons

Go
Again, no one is speaking on BANNING WEAPONS. I am specifically asking about what we can do to lessen these types of incidents. I know that Assault weapons are responsible for very little crime, I'm worried about the trafficking of weapons and giving law enforcement the proper tools to do their jobs, so civilians won't have to.
Iceman00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:40 PM   #33
Iceman00
I screwed up and can't post
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FLA
Posts: 2,838
My Ride: E90 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
The libs are getting burned in this thread.

I'll stay on the sideline and keep reading for entertainment.
Reality and facts have a liberal bias.
Iceman00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:41 PM   #34
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
Reality and facts have a liberal bias.
Not entirely. Emotions run deep on both sides...and emotions aren't factual.
__________________
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:44 PM   #35
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 545
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
tell me how many people are killed every year by NFA weapons

Go
Could the low homicide rate be because they are more tightly controlled?

Last edited by badfast; 01-17-2013 at 08:45 PM.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:47 PM   #36
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,483
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
Again, no one is speaking on BANNING WEAPONS. I am specifically asking about what we can do to lessen these types of incidents. I know that Assault weapons are responsible for very little crime, I'm worried about the trafficking of weapons and giving law enforcement the proper tools to do their jobs, so civilians won't have to.
what tools? A national registry of gun owners maybe?
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:48 PM   #37
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,483
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
Could the low homicide rate be because they are more tightly controlled?
or maybe because the owners of these weapons have tons of money invested in them, and any firearms-related crime would put that entire investment immediately at risk.

Or maybe because they're law-abiding citizens who own NFA guns.
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:54 PM   #38
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 545
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
or maybe because the owners of these weapons have tons of money invested in them, and any firearms-related crime would put that entire investment immediately at risk.

Or maybe because they're law-abiding citizens who own NFA guns.
Since you choose to answer for JonJon and avoided the question, perhaps I shall ask again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
Could the low homicide rate be because they are more tightly controlled?

Last edited by badfast; 01-17-2013 at 08:54 PM.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:54 PM   #39
JonJon
Tinfoilhatatarian
 
JonJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: One of the most evil states ever to exist
Posts: 3,473
My Ride: .
Send a message via AIM to JonJon
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
Could the low homicide rate be because they are more tightly controlled?
No

Many professional studies clearly show crime does not go down after instituting the AWB's of the past. It makes no positive impact on crime, in fact crime goes UP
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
I agree with JonJon.
JonJon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 09:02 PM   #40
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 545
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
No

Many professional studies clearly show crime does not go down after instituting the AWB's of the past. It makes no positive impact on crime, in fact crime goes UP
I would like to see those studies. Have one variable impact another single variable (i.e: crime goes down, gun ownership up and vice versa) is difficult to believe. Correlation is not causation. I am sure there are a number of variables affecting crime rates, not specifically gun ownership rates.

I would also like to see something stating that the low homicide rate with NFA guns are not at all associated with tighter controls.

Last edited by badfast; 01-17-2013 at 09:02 PM.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use