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Old 04-23-2014, 12:45 PM   #1
boostedisbetter
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Pirates screw with the WRONG ship!



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Being unprofessional is GK talk for someone calling out his BS in real life.
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gk seems to have tried to change his role online now. before it was mr. obnoxious. now it's mr. calm, collected, and still an idiot.

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Old 04-23-2014, 12:47 PM   #2
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:53 PM   #3
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I don't know much of anything about maritime law, but I don't understand why companies with ships in the vicinity of Somalia don't hire mercenaries to sit onboard with machine guns every time they pass through Somali waters. The pirates are obviously 1) not very well armed and 2) total opportunists.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:07 PM   #4
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I don't know much of anything about maritime law, but I don't understand why companies with ships in the vicinity of Somalia don't hire mercenaries to sit onboard with machine guns every time they pass through Somali waters. The pirates are obviously 1) not very well armed and 2) total opportunists.
They do.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:12 PM   #5
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yet not an R.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:18 PM   #6
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I don't know much of anything about maritime law, but I don't understand why companies with ships in the vicinity of Somalia don't hire mercenaries to sit onboard with machine guns every time they pass through Somali waters. The pirates are obviously 1) not very well armed and 2) total opportunists.
My assumption is that the cargo is insured and depending on the company they may not want the negative press/p.r. of killing or harming thieves.

Same idea as when a robber goes into a bank, the preferred method is just to have them take what they want and leave.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:23 PM   #7
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That looks like a lot of fun
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:25 PM   #8
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I don't know much of anything about maritime law, but I don't understand why companies with ships in the vicinity of Somalia don't hire mercenaries to sit onboard with machine guns every time they pass through Somali waters. The pirates are obviously 1) not very well armed and 2) total opportunists.
A- Some do

B- Private security doesn't come cheap. You're easily looking at a couple million a year per ship. The cost benefit analysis often says you're better off taking your chances and paying the ransom if you have the bad luck to get boarded.

C- You risk escalating. Many of those pirates have RPGs, or can easily get their hands on some. RPGs could potentially sink a ship.

D- You have to get your insurer to sign on, and many won't agree due to C above.

E- There are other, safer, generally effective ways of avoiding piracy. One is to stay far enough offshore. It's often the ones trying to cut costs that get targeted.

Sources: Capt Phillips (thanks Tom Hanks!) and my negotiations professor in Business Skool, who moonlights as a maritime lawyer, doing things like seizing container ships for nonpayment of fuel bills.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:42 PM   #9
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Cool. Thanks for the input/info, guys.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:44 PM   #10
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That looks like a lot of fun
Ya it does, best job ever.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:23 PM   #11
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Pirates then spends next 2 hours cleaning massive poo and pee out of bilges.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:29 PM   #12
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C- You risk escalating. Many of those pirates have RPGs, or can easily get their hands on some. RPGs could potentially sink a ship.
I think it would take A LOT of RPGs to sink a modern transoceanic ship. The hole an RPG makes just isn't that big (especially when above the water line) relative to the volume of the vessel, the drainage capacity of a modern ship's bilge systems, and the fire fighting abilities built into these ships. There's a reason anti-ship missiles and torpedoes carry some big flippin warheads. Even an unarmored ship requires a lot of damage to actually sink her.

Your point about escalation is valid, since these are commercial vessels and not warships. But ultimately, the pirates have the disadvantage of wanting the ship mostly undamaged and the crew mostly alive. A sunken ship or a dead crew is not ransom-able.

I'd add to your points:

F- Not all ports of call that the ship will make will allow "armed" foreign flag vessels into their waters. It can be expensive and time consuming to pick up and drop off the armed guards only before transiting the risky areas, or putting them off the ship before coming into port somewhere.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:38 PM   #13
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yet not an R.
Repost

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=914306

all you had to do was google: "pirates + e46fanatics"

just saying...

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:57 PM   #14
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F- Not all ports of call that the ship will make will allow "armed" foreign flag vessels into their waters. It can be expensive and time consuming to pick up and drop off the armed guards only before transiting the risky areas, or putting them off the ship before coming into port somewhere.
That is exactly what I've always assumed. Transportation of arms across international borders is not an easy thing.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:01 PM   #15
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:06 PM   #16
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That is exactly what I've always assumed. Transportation of arms across international borders is not an easy thing.
why would that not be easy? think of all the places you could hide a firearm (or whatever) in your house where NO one could find it. now multiply it by 60 to account for the ship's size.

i don't see how there's anyway anyone would know unless the ship was suspected of illegal activity and specifically searched.

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Old 04-23-2014, 05:08 PM   #17
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why would that not be easy? think of all the places you could hide a firearm (or whatever) in your house where NO one could find it. now multiply it by 60 to account for the ship's size.

i don't see how there's anyway anyone would know unless the ship was suspected of illegal activity and specifically searched.
LOL @ the idea that officials all around the globe have to adhere to that standard.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:14 PM   #18
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LOL @ the idea that officials all around the globe have to adhere to that standard.
you really think cargo ships going to and from any country is searched? maybe the cargo. sure. but idk. i'm talking out of my ass here because i have no idea. but i don't see them searching ships like that.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:43 PM   #19
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you really think cargo ships going to and from any country is searched? maybe the cargo. sure. but idk. i'm talking out of my ass here because i have no idea. but i don't see them searching ships like that.
I think they can be regardless of the officials having a good reason or not.

Maybe a crew member is pissed at the captain and tells the port officials about the guns.

Maybe a captain doesn't know about the bribes that are customarily given to port officials, so out of spite, they decide to search his ship.

Maybe someone from the ship posts a video on YouTube of shooting at pirates, and the port official recognizes the ship so he searches it.

Maybe a port official plants some contraband with the intention of soliciting a bribe from the captain to make it go away, but in the course of going through the motions, comes across the guns.

Maybe a sailor on shore leave gets drunk and brags to a dude from another ship, who tells a dude, who tells his old lady, who happens to be cheating on her old man with a port official.

To some degree, I'm talking out of my ass, too, because I don't have any direct experience. But I am a recreational sailor, and I can tell you with certainty that when I (a US citizen) am sailing my US-flagged sailboat around US waters near San Diego bay, the USCG can legally stop and search my vessel (including extensively damaging the vessel) to a much greater extent and with a helluva lot less "cause" than what we typically think of in a traffic stop on land. I am also aware that even a US citizen at a US border entry point does not have the same legal rights as what we're used to when we're walking around all day inside the country.

So I'm jumping to the conclusion that a foreign flagged vessel entering some of these backwater ports in countries with much less established legal systems MAY be subject to a wide range of possible searches, impounds, conditions and goofy ass govt interactions, and the big bosses at corporate don't want to deal with all that.
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:06 PM   #20
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I think it would take A LOT of RPGs to sink a modern transoceanic ship. The hole an RPG makes just isn't that big (especially when above the water line) relative to the volume of the vessel, the drainage capacity of a modern ship's bilge systems, and the fire fighting abilities built into these ships. There's a reason anti-ship missiles and torpedoes carry some big flippin warheads. Even an unarmored ship requires a lot of damage to actually sink her.

Your point about escalation is valid, since these are commercial vessels and not warships. But ultimately, the pirates have the disadvantage of wanting the ship mostly undamaged and the crew mostly alive. A sunken ship or a dead crew is not ransom-able.

I'd add to your points:

F- Not all ports of call that the ship will make will allow "armed" foreign flag vessels into their waters. It can be expensive and time consuming to pick up and drop off the armed guards only before transiting the risky areas, or putting them off the ship before coming into port somewhere.
You're right it would probably take a lot of RPGs to actually sink a ship. But there is a reason Somali pirates carry them; they can quickly do serious damage to the ship. Potentially, a couple of lucky shots could sink a ship, especially something with flammable cargo.

But the Pirates actually have the advantage here (hence the RPG's). They face the same problem all hostage takers have; they have to be willing to kill the hostage, or the threat is not taken seriously. They have little to lose (coming from abject poverty, with piracy often being their only option). The ships' owners and insurance companies, on the other hand, have huge amounts of money and goods at stake.

So they pay, which is part of the game. Kind of like a tax or the medieval troll-bridge.

Your point F is a good one as well. Most of these ships are not going to covertly carry armed guards, or they risk having their ship seized. The logistics of moving mercenaries and their arms around are not particularly cheap.
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