E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > General Off-Topic

General Off-Topic
Everything not about BMWs. Posts must be "primetime" safe and in good taste. You must be logged in to see sub-forums.
Click here to browse all new posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-23-2016, 09:52 AM   #1
chikoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 140
My Ride: 05 330Ci ZHP Cabrio
The No. 1 duty of a police officer

“The No. 1 duty of a police officer is to go home to his or her family at the end of the shift.”

If so, then an officer is always right to shoot in any dangerous encounter. Or potentially dangerous. Or conceivably dangerous. Or most any time.

If self-preservation is the first and foremost priority of a police officer, then you get what we have seen in recent months and years — a series of unsettling police shootings.

Maybe it’s time to quit nodding along and question the maxim that going home at the end of the day trumps all other considerations.

They have willingly taken a job that involves personal risk. It also requires split-second decision making that must go beyond simple self-preservation.

If going home safely becomes the overriding priority, that can become another way of saying, “Shoot first and ask questions later.”

Of course we want every officer to go home safely. But at what cost?
chikoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 09:59 AM   #2
MP0WER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 506
My Ride: is fun to drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
"The No. 1 duty of a police officer is to go home to his or her family at the end of the shift."

If so, then an officer is always right to shoot in any dangerous encounter. Or potentially dangerous. Or conceivably dangerous. Or most any time.

If self-preservation is the first and foremost priority of a police officer, then you get what we have seen in recent months and years - a series of unsettling police shootings.

Maybe it's time to quit nodding along and question the maxim that going home at the end of the day trumps all other considerations.

They have willingly taken a job that involves personal risk. It also requires split-second decision making that must go beyond simple self-preservation.

If going home safely becomes the overriding priority, that can become another way of saying, "Shoot first and ask questions later."

Of course we want every officer to go home safely. But at what cost?
Self-preservation is the first and foremost priority of just about any human.

They have willingly taken a job that involves risk. This job requires training in order to deal with those split second decisions. Within that training they are also given a specific set of departmental procedures to follow on a day to day basis which varies from situation to situation. Just because the media and SJW have it in their head that the procedures and protocol aren't fair doesn't mean they aren't. When someone with authority draws a gun on you, what will you do? Will you put your hands down whey they say to keep them up? Will you walk back to your car when they tell you to walk towards them?

Why not ask about the people who the police are encountering? What about the thousands of police interactions that don't end in a shooting? To proclaim the police have adopted a shoot first and ask questions later mentality is just as ignorant as calming that the police roam the streets in packs looking to murder any stray black men between the ages of 18 and 30.
__________________


"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." — Frédéric Bastiat

Last edited by MP0WER; 09-23-2016 at 10:02 AM.
MP0WER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 10:10 AM   #3
chikoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 140
My Ride: 05 330Ci ZHP Cabrio
Let us not skirt the issue at hand by diverting the attention to the good cops. The question is the increase in police fatality over the years. Or is it that we are only now becoming aware of these fatalities with the advent of social media and other technological advances that better allows and forces us to systematically record the incidents more accurately?



chikoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 10:17 AM   #4
swordsman11868
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,163
My Ride: 2003 325i
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
Let us not skirt the issue at hand by diverting the attention to the good cops. The question is the increase in police fatality over the years. Or is it that we are only now becoming aware of these fatalities with the advent of social media and other technological advances that better allows and forces us to systematically record the incidents more accurately?




Why don't you propose an Hypothesis and then present evidence that either tends to support or disprove it?

That would give some credence to your thread.

Merely asking "is it A or B?" does nothing to sway anyone's opinion.
__________________
It's much easier to PRESERVE an E46 than it is to RESTORE one.

BMW Wiki: http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php

E46Fanatics inspiration Robolop: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...87566&page=101

2016 Beheadings in Saudi Arabia: 92.
swordsman11868 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 10:32 AM   #5
Mango
e46mango.com
 
Mango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 25,436
My Ride: 2016 Lexus
All animals, including us, are hard-wired to survive. If you're put in a position of authority where you have to make a split second decision his life or yours, instinct will likely tell you your life. Or would you sit there and think... hmm maybe his? You might not have time to finish that thought.

Of course people in that profession should behave professionally and absolutely make the best judgments and I hope that they do. But you have thousands, if not millions of situations with varying levels of severity and complication/danger. Statistically, how many of those can come out 100% correct? How many do you expect to come out correctly? As long as there's a human element involved, you cannot expect 100% perfection. Given that, I'm surprised there's not more "incidents" than presented on the news.

Not to say better training and practices can't be put into place.
Mango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 10:45 AM   #6
choxor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,448
My Ride: JDM
This has to be the dumbest thread I've read in a long time.

OP, become a cop.
__________________
choxor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 10:47 AM   #7
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: such united many state
Posts: 5,892
My Ride: so turbo wow
Penis
__________________
Zell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 10:55 AM   #8
MorganFreeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: i hate cats
Posts: 81
My Ride: bacon
foot long
__________________
MorganFreeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 11:04 AM   #9
M3Inline6
aka...Dark Snow
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,953
My Ride: Currently a blonde!
This thread fails to touch on the fact that MOST officers NEVER shoot their guns on duty...........meaning, they go their entire career without ever having to shoot/shoot at a suspect. The officers that end up involved in an OIS are few & far between.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwel on "Manhattan Project"
You heard of me.....burgandy and outlines like murder scenes; Germany..took ferns and flat whites for blurring greens.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 09-23-2016 at 11:05 AM.
M3Inline6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 11:14 AM   #10
SamDoe1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 3,605
My Ride: 4cyl of fury
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
“The No. 1 duty of a police officer is to go home to his or her family at the end of the shift.”

If so, then an officer is always right to shoot in any dangerous encounter. Or potentially dangerous. Or conceivably dangerous. Or most any time.

If self-preservation is the first and foremost priority of a police officer, then you get what we have seen in recent months and years — a series of unsettling police shootings.

Maybe it’s time to quit nodding along and question the maxim that going home at the end of the day trumps all other considerations.

They have willingly taken a job that involves personal risk. It also requires split-second decision making that must go beyond simple self-preservation.

If going home safely becomes the overriding priority, that can become another way of saying, “Shoot first and ask questions later.”

Of course we want every officer to go home safely. But at what cost?
Watch a video on how quickly someone can go from being an innocent bystander to becoming a deadly threat and get back to me. Your comments make you seem like an uninformed moron, which you very well might be, so I suggest you do some research and learn before spouting off about stuff you don't understand.

This thread is probably the dumbest one on this topic we've had in a long time...and that's saying something.
SamDoe1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 11:15 AM   #11
M3Inline6
aka...Dark Snow
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,953
My Ride: Currently a blonde!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
"The No. 1 duty of a police officer is to go home to his or her family at the end of the shift."
No, that's not the number one "duty". It IS the primary survival objective however.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
If so, then [b]an officer is always right to shoot in any dangerous encounter. Or potentially dangerous. Or conceivably dangerous. Or most any time.
There are a myriad of things that fit within the "dangerous encounter" category. It's not that simple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
If self-preservation is the first and foremost priority of a police officer, then you get what we have seen in recent months and years - a series of unsettling police shootings.
What about the specifics of those situations (..which usually involve a weapon.....real or fake, or some sort of alarming behavior)? What about the thousands upon thousands of police contacts that occur daily that don't result in shootings?


Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
They have willingly taken a job that involves personal risk.
That doesn't mean that their own lives aren't priority.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
If going home safely becomes the overriding priority, that can become another way of saying, "Shoot first and ask questions later."
Considering that most officers go their entire career without ever firing a weapon [at a suspect], but have drawn their weapon multiple times a week, I'd say that you are wrong. So wrong that it's not even up for debate.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwel on "Manhattan Project"
You heard of me.....burgandy and outlines like murder scenes; Germany..took ferns and flat whites for blurring greens.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 09-23-2016 at 11:17 AM.
M3Inline6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 11:16 AM   #12
M3Inline6
aka...Dark Snow
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,953
My Ride: Currently a blonde!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
Watch a video on how quickly someone can go from being an innocent bystander to becoming a deadly threat and get back to me. Your comments make you seem like an uninformed moron, which you very well might be, so I suggest you do some research and learn before spouting off about stuff you don't understand.

This thread is probably the dumbest one on this topic we've had in a long time...and that's saying something.
I agree on all accounts.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwel on "Manhattan Project"
You heard of me.....burgandy and outlines like murder scenes; Germany..took ferns and flat whites for blurring greens.
M3Inline6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 11:17 AM   #13
Wraisil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 218
My Ride: 2010 Infiniti G37
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
"The No. 1 duty of a police officer is to go home to his or her family at the end of the shift."

I agree, it is their primary duty.... to themselves...

If so, then an officer is always right to shoot in any dangerous encounter. Or potentially dangerous. Or conceivably dangerous. Or most any time.

I disagree with all of these conclusions.

If self-preservation is the first and foremost priority of a police officer, then you get what we have seen in recent months and years - a series of unsettling police shootings.

As this is based on the above conclusions, I also find it to be flawed.

Maybe it's time to quit nodding along and question the maxim that going home at the end of the day trumps all other considerations.

This (and everything above) ignores the very real fact that something being the #1 priority does NOT mean that it automatically overrides every other priority. You might as well conclude that since my buddy's #1 priority is spending time with his family therefore he must run every red light, go as fast as his vehicle will allow, run over people in cross-walks etc every time he is trying to get to his family from anywhere they are not. That would be just as absurd as what you posted however, so reasonable people recognize it is not the case.

They have willingly taken a job that involves personal risk. It also requires split-second decision making that must go beyond simple self-preservation.

This is why protocols and training etc are in place, because it does go beyond just simple self-preservation. If it didn't, every police encounter would result in the officer killing the people they encountered because they could be a threat to their life. It doesn't because your premise in this thread is flawed.

If going home safely becomes the overriding priority, that can become another way of saying, "Shoot first and ask questions later."

Of course we want every officer to go home safely. But at what cost?
Fix your flawed premise and the post disappears pretty much completely.

Last edited by Wraisil; 09-23-2016 at 11:19 AM.
Wraisil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 11:19 AM   #14
MP0WER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 506
My Ride: is fun to drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
Let us not skirt the issue at hand by diverting the attention to the good cops. The question is the increase in police fatality over the years. Or is it that we are only now becoming aware of these fatalities with the advent of social media and other technological advances that better allows and forces us to systematically record the incidents more accurately?
I can assure you that in the age of everyone having a video camera on them at all times, if there is an increase in fatal police shootings, it's not because they've become more lax with departmental protocol and judgement.
__________________


"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." — Frédéric Bastiat

Last edited by MP0WER; 09-23-2016 at 11:19 AM.
MP0WER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 11:52 AM   #15
chikoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 140
My Ride: 05 330Ci ZHP Cabrio
American police officers are among the best-trained in the world, but part of what they're trained to do is leads to this problem. The police training starts with and consistently emphasizes this thought to the cadets through at the very least 4 statements


"The #1 duty of a police officer is to go home to his or her family at the end of the shift"
"Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"
"complacency kills"
"Hesitation is fatal"

This concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Incoming officers are taught what is internally known as the first rule of law enforcement - An officer's overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

As part of the training they are shown traumatic videos where police officers are beaten, and even killed by suspects (nee felons), and it is attributed to the officers lack of vigilance. With this traumatic video training, the rookies promise one thing to themselves - I will never let this happen to me.
This is intermingled with training to shoot before a threat is fully realized (pre-emptive action), to not wait until the last minute because the last minute may be too late.

A result of this determination is hyper vigilance, and I am sure we all can agree upon and understand what it leads to in some of them(not all of them) - being quick to judge and trigger happy.

But what about the consequences of a mistake? That dark object in the suspect's hands could be a wallet, not a gun. The training scenario even makes that point. But as a group the officers, with the traumatic training, come to the conclusion that the risks of mistake are less-far less-than the risks of hesitation, summed up by this phrase "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six", which is along the lines of "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission".

Last edited by chikoo; 09-23-2016 at 11:53 AM.
chikoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 11:58 AM   #16
choxor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,448
My Ride: JDM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post
American police officers are among the best-trained in the world, but part of what they're trained to do is leads to this problem. The police training starts with and consistently emphasizes this thought to the cadets through at the very least 4 statements


"The #1 duty of a police officer is to go home to his or her family at the end of the shift"
"Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"
"complacency kills"
"Hesitation is fatal"

This concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Incoming officers are taught what is internally known as the first rule of law enforcement - An officer's overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift.

As part of the training they are shown traumatic videos where police officers are beaten, and even killed by suspects (nee felons), and it is attributed to the officers lack of vigilance. With this traumatic video training, the rookies promise one thing to themselves - I will never let this happen to me.
This is intermingled with training to shoot before a threat is fully realized (pre-emptive action), to not wait until the last minute because the last minute may be too late.

A result of this determination is hyper vigilance, and I am sure we all can agree upon and understand what it leads to in some of them(not all of them) - being quick to judge and trigger happy.

But what about the consequences of a mistake? That dark object in the suspect's hands could be a wallet, not a gun. The training scenario even makes that point. But as a group the officers, with the traumatic training, come to the conclusion that the risks of mistake are less-far less-than the risks of hesitation, summed up by this phrase "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six", which is along the lines of "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission".
If you're going to plagiarize a website, at least cite it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...rguson/383681/
__________________

Last edited by choxor; 09-23-2016 at 12:05 PM. Reason: just in case he ninja deletes that crap
choxor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 12:07 PM   #17
Mango
e46mango.com
 
Mango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 25,436
My Ride: 2016 Lexus
TIL OP is good at copy paste
Mango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 12:45 PM   #18
MorganFreeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: i hate cats
Posts: 81
My Ride: bacon
Brb, let me find comments to copy and paste to this thread.
__________________
MorganFreeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 02:23 PM   #19
MP0WER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 506
My Ride: is fun to drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by choxor View Post
If you're going to plagiarize a website, at least cite it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...rguson/383681/
At least we know what Seth thinks about police training from his opinion piece.
__________________


"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." — Frédéric Bastiat
MP0WER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2016, 03:14 PM   #20
M3Inline6
aka...Dark Snow
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,953
My Ride: Currently a blonde!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
At least we know what Seth thinks about police training from his opinion piece.
You know which videos I like the most? The videos of civilians running through police simulators and being shot on duty (...or nearly shot on duty). It's an eye opening perspective. Trying to have rational discussions with people like chikoo is a painstaking endeavor.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwel on "Manhattan Project"
You heard of me.....burgandy and outlines like murder scenes; Germany..took ferns and flat whites for blurring greens.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 09-23-2016 at 03:15 PM.
M3Inline6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use