Revenue Problem or Spending Problem

With the national debt around $16.4+ trillion ----

Do you think we are not collecting enough taxes

or

Is the spending out of control.

obvious answer is obvious

Both. It's not an either/or type of question.

Cut first until we can no longer cut without it doing harm and then collect taxes to make up difference. It's called being responsible and sustainable.

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08

Cut first until we can no longer cut without it doing harm and then collect taxes to make up difference. It's called being responsible and sustainable.

Dis.
Although what is viewed as necessary would be the subject of intense politics and debate.

Taxes were just raised on everyone who pays into SS and
those making $400k or $250k depending on the tax.

Now the debt ceiling needs to be raised again with no talk of spending cuts.

Finally the Pres and Senate are considering proposing a budget. The only reason is to look into how more revenue can be raised. Yes ... another tax increase somewhere. BUT - still no spending cuts.

So...as long as we continue to find more ways to raise taxes

the SPENDING WILL CONTINUE with absolutly NO CUTS.

Happy New Year.

I think in certain instances, it's both.

For example, fighting two wars (OIF & OEF) we essentially put it on a credit card and borrowed money from overseas. In previous wars, taxes were raised to pay for the war effort. For example, in WW II, taxes were raised, as well as campaigning to buy government war bonds.

We need to raise taxes AND stop spending.

But the real problem here isn't the numbers.. it's the mentality. We can't continue to spread this notion that the rich should pay for everything while simultaneously expanding both the number of entitlements AND the number of entitled. Those currently on welfare are currently reproducing at 400-600% the rate of those in the top tenth of earners.

If the bottom continues to grow exponentially, they will have to learn to fend for themselves or our debt will skyrocket.

Originally Posted by 2000_328CI

We need to raise taxes AND stop spending.

But the real problem here isn't the numbers.. it's the mentality. We can't continue to spread this notion that the rich should pay for everything while simultaneously expanding both the number of entitlements AND the number of entitled. Those currently on welfare are currently reproducing at 400-600% the rate of those in the top tenth of earners.

If the bottom continues to grow exponentially, they will have to learn to fend for themselves or our debt will skyrocket.

I agree with raising taxes and curbing spending. I also agree that taxing the rich more, in it of itself, isn't going to solve our debt issues. Certainly the "1%", a minority in this country, can't absolve this nation of its deficit.

Originally Posted by mdyaman

I agree with raising taxes and curbing spending. I also agree that taxing the rich more, in it of itself, isn't going to solve our debt issues. Certainly the "1%", a minority in this country, can't absolve this nation of its deficit.

everyone should watch this.

Originally Posted by 2000_328CI

everyone should watch this.

didn't watch

Originally Posted by 2000_328CI

We need to raise taxes AND stop spending.

But the real problem here isn't the numbers.. it's the mentality. We can't continue to spread this notion that the rich should pay for everything while simultaneously expanding both the number of entitlements AND the number of entitled. Those currently on welfare are currently reproducing at 400-600% the rate of those in the top tenth of earners.

If the bottom continues to grow exponentially, they will have to learn to fend for themselves or our debt will skyrocket.

Ben Franklin says it best...

“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08

Ben Franklin says it best...

“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

aka give a man a fish v. teach a man to fish

Franklin is dead on here, I find it sad that so many just don't seem to get it.

Originally Posted by BB BMW

Taxes were just raised on everyone who pays into SS and
those making $400k or $250k depending on the tax.

Now the debt ceiling needs to be raised again with no talk of spending cuts.

Finally the Pres and Senate are considering proposing a budget. The only reason is to look into how more revenue can be raised. Yes ... another tax increase somewhere. BUT - still no spending cuts.

So...as long as we continue to find more ways to raise taxes

the SPENDING WILL CONTINUE with absolutly NO CUTS.

Happy New Year.

Tax receipts as a percentage of GDP are well below the historical average for the past 60ish years. The SS tax break was meant to be temporary, so you can complain that it's a sinister tax increase, but it was a return a level that was normal during the prior years.

We need to increase entailment programs, increase government spending and increase taxes on those who make more than the medium household income. Really folks, you didn't build your own success and paying heavily back into a system that got you your success is the right thing to do. We need to bridge that gap with more bridge cards and food stamps.

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08

Ben Franklin says it best...

“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”

Ahh 1766 such a simple time in history.

Originally Posted by badfast

Ahh 1766 such a simple time in history.

That's my mentality too and it's 2013. I can't help someone if they don't help themselves first. I don't know how you feel but personal responsibility is personal responsibility and everyone has the potential to work and contribute unless they are handicapped or unable to legitimately work. I praise the single mom who gets up every morning to provide a better life for her children while going to work raking in minimum wage. She gets more respect from me than the freeloaders and these out of touch with reality politicians.

Originally Posted by bimmerfan08

That's my mentality too and it's 2013. I can't help someone if they don't help themselves first. I don't know how you feel but personal responsibility is personal responsibility and everyone has the potential to work and contribute unless they are handicapped or unable to legitimately work. I praise the single mom who gets up every morning to provide a better life for her children while going to work raking in minimum wage. She gets more respect from me than the freeloaders and these out of touch with reality politicians.

Does she still get the same praise and respect when you realize she is likely on food stamps or other government subsidies?

It's obviously more of a spending problem. And the main problem is the party in charge doesn't want to curb spending because money money money. Both parties are more than happy to make the other look like the bad guy instead of actually managing the spending problem. It's easy enough to make it look like they are doing everything they can to cut back til it hurts but those guys make unreasonable compromises.

Originally Posted by badfast

Does she still get the same praise and respect when you realize she is likely on food stamps or other government subsidies?

For the ones that avoid subsidies yes but in certain circumstances I can agree with it. My mother was a single mom for the longest time and worked very hard not to rely on the government. It can be done. However I am a firm believer that everybody controls their own destiny and can change their situations with enough hard work and dedication. What you make of yourself is your business and your own doing and shouldn't be at the expense of others.

Inb4 I get slandered for sounding like a Chasist.