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Old 01-22-2013, 11:11 AM   #41
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If you took a poll of the ones on welfare, it would probably come back as 100% of them feel they absolutely need it.
Which to me would seem to reinforce the success of modern welfare in that all the 4% who are on it absolutely need it, especially in the aftermath of the Great Bush Recession.

Do recall that welfare was extensively revamped in the '90's from what was a pretty awful, bloated and corrosive system to the much leaner, more directed, limited and temporary current system. This modern system really is a great Republican success as that revamp was pretty much a result of their efforts and ideas that Clinton then adopted too. I think far too many Repubs/Conservatives trot out a very dated, "Welfare Queen" caricature of the program, one that hasn't existed for 20 years.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:14 AM   #42
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especially in the aftermath of the Great Bush Recession.
Jesus Christ, enough with the propaganda you sound like a fool
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:30 AM   #43
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I'm always amazed that other people can comment on how much others make, passing judgement that they make enough (or too much) and it shouldn't be a problem for them to fork over their income to the government to spend (irresponsibly I might add).

I used to think $100k sounded like a lot of money (not rich, just doing pretty darn well). I gotta say, I make that now and it doesn't go very far. And I'm a cheap guy.

It is always easier to tell someone else how to spend their money than your own.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:50 AM   #44
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Per ESPN

The federal taxes for Mickelson's tax bracket also will increase in 2013. According to the Wall Street Journal, rates on single incomes of more than $400,000 will go from 35 percent to 39.6 percent, while the Social Security tax will be raised from 4.2 percent to 6.2 percent.

Was the SS increase the lapse of the temporary holiday or did they negotiate a higher cap than before it?
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:10 PM   #45
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Jesus Christ, enough with the propaganda you sound like a fool
A great recession that happened under Bush's stewardship, ergo: "The Great Bush Recession." Seems simple and logical enough.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:12 PM   #46
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Just because you have a "decent" accountant doesn't mean you can't end up paying a bunch of money in taxes. It all depends on how you earn that money and how you spend it.

You could have the best accountant in the world but if you just squirreled all your money into a bank account, then your effective tax rate is going to be pretty high.

Understood, I would like to assume he diversified his money.


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Netting $18M on $60M gross, probably not, hence my last comment (the dude needs a better accountant, IMHO, perhaps he could hire Romney's).

However, I have a hard time getting all broke up over anyone raking in a cool $18M regardless of however much they earned gross. Shoot fire, I'd drop down to my knees and thank the high heavens to make that much my entire life rather than whine and pout about how unfair it was I didn't some even greater amount. I'd be much more concerned about the many more poor souls making but $18K a year if I was going to worry about anything. Again, new meme: 1%ers Problems, or perhaps, 0.1%ers Problems.
The hypocrisy and selfishnes in people who think like this is amazing. You say this, yet you do not practice this mind set in your daily life, why do you NOT concern yourself with other peoples money.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:17 PM   #47
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I used to think $100k sounded like a lot of money (not rich, just doing pretty darn well). I gotta say, I make that now and it doesn't go very far. And I'm a cheap guy.
My dad had his own rule of economics: "The minimum income necessary to live comfortably is 25% more than you earn." I think you really do see this in so many people who, while raking in money that most would consider extravagant, nonetheless bemoan their privations. This chasing some Nth degree of income can really become a never ending chase, always out of reach. I'm now making what I once thought would be a fairly cushy income yet still seem to be scraping by (new kid and living in the DC area certainly don't help though), so I can't leave myself out of that characterization.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:20 PM   #48
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Per ESPN

The federal taxes for Mickelson's tax bracket also will increase in 2013. According to the Wall Street Journal, rates on single incomes of more than $400,000 will go from 35 percent to 39.6 percent, while the Social Security tax will be raised from 4.2 percent to 6.2 percent.

Was the SS increase the lapse of the temporary holiday or did they negotiate a higher cap than before it?
It was the expiration of a temporary tax cut. Prior to 2 years ago it had been 6.2%.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:43 PM   #49
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The hypocrisy and selfishnes in people who think like this is amazing. You say this, yet you do not practice this mind set in your daily life, why do you NOT concern yourself with other peoples money.
Not quite sure what you mean by this. I presume you mean that I don't ask everyone I meet how much they make and castigate those who make above some amount? In a "micro"/individual way, no, I don't do this.

However, in a broader "macro"/societal perspective, yes, I am concerned about the possible negative impacts of the over-concentration of wealth and thus, power and influence within a very small sector of our society.

Beyond any moral/ethical questions, I think there are very pragmatic concerns that too much wealth disparity, both in itself and as symptomatic of other problems, can lead to very real problems from social instability/chaos (a rather Burkean conservative concern) to an overall decline in the economic strength and robustness of our society. A possible historical precedent might be the Gilded Age of the mid/late 19th century (which we are now surpassing in terms of economic disparities) and the social unrest which occured in the early/mid 20th century.

I don't so much begrudge Mickelson himself for making $60M/$16M, though I can't say I cry myself to sleep if he only ends up with the latter, but rather, are we in some Neo Gilded Age and headed for another period of great socialand political unrest as a consequence.

At which point of wealth concentration, or is there any point, does income/wealth disparity become a detriment to a society overall? Are we approaching, at or beyond that point? What might that point be (if there is any): 50% of our societies wealth is possessed by the top 25%? The top 10%? The top 1%?The top .001%? I think our society is now at the top 1% level at least.

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Old 01-22-2013, 12:50 PM   #50
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The wealthiest 1% hold about 35% of the nations net worth, and the wealthiest 10% hold about 75% of the nations net worth.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:53 PM   #51
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Not quite sure what you mean by this. I presume you mean that I don't ask everyone I meet how much they make and castigate those who make above some amount? In a "micro"/individual way, no, I don't do this.

However, in a broader "macro"/societal perspective, yes, I am concerned about the possible negative impacts of the over-concentration of wealth and thus, power and influence within a very small sector of our society.

Beyond any moral/ethical questions, I think there are very pragmatic concerns that too much wealth disparity, both in itself and as symptomatic of other problems, can lead to very real problems from social instability/chaos (a rather Burkean conservative concern) to an overall decline in the economic strength and robustness of our society. A possible historical precedent might be the Gilded Age of the mid/late 19th century (which we are now surpassing in terms of economic disparities) and the social unrest which occured in the early/mid 20th century.

I don't so much begrudge Mickelson himself for making $60M/$16M, though I can't say I cry myself to sleep if he only ends up with the latter, but rather, are we in some Neo Gilded Age and headed for another period of great socialand political unrest as a consequence.

At which point of wealth concentration, or is there any point, does income/wealth disparity become to a society overall? Are we approaching, at or beyond that point? What might that point be (if there is any): 50% of our societies wealth is possessed by the top 25%? The top 10%? The top 1%?The top .001%? I think our society is now at the top 1% level at least.
Why are liberals so wrapped around the topic of wealth distribution? Why are they even concerned about money since according to most it is a character flaw to be engulfed in the mindset of the need to have money. And since when do money and morals come into play? According to resdeq and others morals are for the weak and close-minded.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:58 PM   #52
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Why are liberals so wrapped around the topic of wealth distribution? Why are they even concerned about money since according to most it is a character flaw to be engulfed in the mindset of the need to have money. And since when do money and morals come into play? According to resdeq and others morals are for the weak and close-minded.
I'm not super liberal, but I can see where the concern of lopsided wealth distribution can come from. If at a certain point a small percentage of people control nearly all of the wealth, and money influences politics like it does, that could become a problem.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #53
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I'm not super liberal, but I can see where the concern of lopsided wealth distribution can come from. If at a certain point a small percentage of people control nearly all of the wealth, and money influences politics like it does, that could become a problem.
It would depend on who controls the wealth. People have a negative perception of money and associate it with greed and evil. I don't. Money in a sense does buy a certain degree of happiness and security. If I had millions of dollars I would start up businesses and give to people.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:06 PM   #54
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It would depend on who controls the wealth. People have a negative perception of money and associate it with greed and evil. I don't. Money in a sense does buy a certain degree of happiness and security. If I had millions of dollars I would start up businesses and give to people.
If you aren't making it rain on people with thousands or hundreds of dollars present day, you won't do it with millions

If one day you make millions... it won't be the result of giving it away carelessly
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 01-22-2013, 01:14 PM   #55
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who cares? lefty is one of the biggest douchebag losers on the tour. he's a whiny bitch on the course and now whining about his taxes. get a better accountant you idiot.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:18 PM   #56
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The wealthiest 1% hold about 35% of the nations net worth, and the wealthiest 10% hold about 75% of the nations net worth.
it will always be that way in a free society, some people are simply better at it than others. Just as people are free to soar, they are also free to squander.

Go look at all thoe "equal" socialist countries and compare the wealth inequality between the socialist ruling class and the people.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:19 PM   #57
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A great recession that happened under Bush's stewardship, ergo: "The Great Bush Recession." Seems simple and logical enough.
Get real, you're trying to artistically style the recession as the fault of bush and bush alone when you phrase it like that and everyone who isn't legally retarded knows that isn't the case.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:21 PM   #58
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it will always be that way in a free society, some people are simply better at it than others. Just as people are free to soar, they are also free to squander.

Go look at all thoe "equal" socialist countries and compare the wealth inequality between the socialist ruling class and the people.
It has not always been that way in our society.....it's gotten progressively more lop sided as time has progressed.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:24 PM   #59
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:26 PM   #60
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Get real, you're trying to artistically style the recession as the fault of bush and bush alone when you phrase it like that and everyone who isn't legally retarded knows that isn't the case.
Certainly not his fault alone, but he was the captain at the helm when the economic ship of the U.S. ran deeply aground, so as the one primarily responsible I feel justified in my label.

According to polls, most Americans seem to feel that Bush (and the GOP) should be held primarily responsible, both for the initial meltdown and the subsequent difficult recovery that it took to repair our severely damaged economy that Obama inherited (hence Obama's reelection even in still challenging economic times).
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