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Health & Fitness
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:03 PM   #1
z00
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Women and pullups

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...l-ups.cnn.html

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Old 01-03-2014, 08:12 PM   #2
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I have a lot of military in my family, Marines and special forces, guys that have been in the real ****, they are pissed that women are given easier physical fitness tests than men in order to serve in combat situations.

I'm assuming that this is what the video is about.
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:25 PM   #3
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Women usually aren't as strong as men, but that doesn't mean that they can't do all or almost all of what might be required of them in combat. That some might not be able to do three pull ups, doesn't mean that they couldn't hike as long, shoot as well, run as far, or be able to contribute significantly to a combat unit. The one thing they'd be handicapped at would probably be pulling a wounded comrade out of harm's way, but given that they'd be in a minority in every combat unit, there would be males around that could carry that weight.

So they'd take on a slightly different role in some few instances, but that's true of all in a combat unit. Some will be better shots, some will be smarter and be able to think more strategically, some will be better at hand-to-hand combat, etc.... Officers, I presume, decide who does what in a particular combat situation based on the skills he or she knows his troops to possess.

If a woman is willing to lay her life on the line, potentially 'down,' for her country, all the power to her. In the workplace, this would be called making a reasonable accommodation in a job's role, where such accommodation doesn't otherwise endanger others or herself.

Didn't see the vid, though, just saw that 3 pull ups were being debated.
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:30 PM   #4
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Women and pullups

They should've never came up with that for regular ass WMs. Fact is most cant.
There are a few female beasts out there. But they're few and far between and even then, not all can do pull-ups easily.


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Old 01-04-2014, 01:30 AM   #5
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plenty of guys can't do 3 pullups
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:33 AM   #6
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Women and pullups

My mother can do 20 pull ups easily.
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:33 AM   #7
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Women and pullups

Plenty of guys aren't Marines.


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Old 01-04-2014, 01:41 AM   #8
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:30 AM   #9
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Re: Women and pullups

In for a video of marshmallows mom doing 20 pull ups

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Old 01-04-2014, 04:34 AM   #10
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In for a video of marshmallows mom doing 20 pull ups

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Haha she's actually pretty good. She works out all the time.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:25 AM   #11
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way it works at my place, she gets undressed, i do pull ups
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:03 AM   #12
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Women and pullups

I support equality. Equality doesn't mean one group gets easier requirements - especially for such an incredibly dangerous and physically demanding position.

If you can perform as required, welcome. If you can't, goodbye.

As for reasonable accommodation, is that a joke? There is no reasonable accommodation on a battlefield. That's like saying we should be concerned about bullets and bombs constituting a hostile work environment.


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It's more easy to kill with a sword than with a gun.

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Old 01-04-2014, 02:34 PM   #13
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Given that women and men have innate different physical strength attributes. The pullup requirements cannot be the same, so no gender equality when it comes to physical matters. But 20 Vs 3 seems kind of unfair. I think 20 Vs 5 makes more sense.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:52 PM   #14
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Women and pullups

I don't have a problem with women being in combat if they can meet the standard. The same standard everyone else has to meet not some special standard.

In the military it's not about who you are, where you come from, what you did. It's about meeting a unilateral standard required to perform your duty.

Why not make it so that men who can't past the male pft can still skate by in passing the female "pft"? If it's good enough for women why not men? Because everyone accepts that there's a difference except for civilians. Apparently it would be lowering the standards for males but we're the same

On the same note I know women in the military who can out perform males in every aspect of the male pft test and they should be allowed to fill combat roles if they make it through selection, Indoc., etc... Just like males if the desire as much.

Hey, what the hell do I know? My life only depends on the guy, or gal, to my left and right.


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Old 01-04-2014, 05:13 PM   #15
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Given that women and men have innate different physical strength attributes. The pullup requirements cannot be the same, so no gender equality when it comes to physical matters. But 20 Vs 3 seems kind of unfair. I think 20 Vs 5 makes more sense.
As a point of clarification, twenty is not the minimum for men. Both men and women can pass with three pull-ups, with twenty being necessary for a perfect score. The problem is that most women can't meet the minimum requirement. There is a second part, which is simply hanging for fifteen seconds, which officials have (rightly) said doesn't require or demonstrate the strength necessary for combat duty. Men are not allowed to opt for the fifteen second hang and must complete three pull-ups or else fail.

Having a two tier system means one of two things:
1. The upper body strength standards are not actually necessary for combat strength and should be removed. Per military leadership (and I believe this would be backed up by our military members) this is not the case.
2. We are so intent on getting women into combat that we are willing to lower the standards for them so they can qualify.

As I'm neither military nor former military, I can't comment on how often the upper body strength comes into play during combat. Some of the scenarios (scaling a wall) would obviously happen much less often than others (carrying heavy objects,) but the less-frequent scenarios seem to be more severe/important. If we are allowing less able soldiers into combat with a group whose creed includes, "I will never leave a fallen comrade," this then puts an additional burden on those who do meet the strength standards - thus putting both groups in further (and I'd argue unnecessary) danger.

Women have been pushing for quite a while to be considered for combat duty and, now that they are given the ability, they are failing (at a rate over 50%) to show themselves capable.

It's also worth noting that the majority of men are able to come close to perfect scores (i.e. twenty pull-ups.) Without knowing the stats on how many men are scoring near-perfect and how many women are passing with the bare minimum, it's difficult to really measure the differences we are allowing.

If women continue to fail at an alarming rate, and then can only pass at a bare-minimum level, perhaps it's time to consider that being male is a bona fide occupational qualification for a combat soldier.
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I don't see what is ridiculous by robbing with a sword.A sword in one od the most lethal wepon !!!

It's more easy to kill with a sword than with a gun.

A sword is more frightening than toy-looking gun like glock.

robbing with a sword is a good thing
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:45 PM   #16
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^ agreed.

20 Vs 3 makes sense now. It's also expected that the passing rate for women would be way less than men. Very few women have the physical and mental strength to be combat soldiers. The bar should bet set high.
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:48 PM   #17
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^ agreed.

20 Vs 3 makes sense now. It's also expected that the passing rate for women would be way less than men. Very few women have the physical and mental strength to be combat soldiers. The bar should bet set high.
I haven't seen anything that said they expected high failure rates. If anything, I'd guess the failure rates are a huge surprise to them since, after 55% failed, they suspended the requirements.
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I don't see what is ridiculous by robbing with a sword.A sword in one od the most lethal wepon !!!

It's more easy to kill with a sword than with a gun.

A sword is more frightening than toy-looking gun like glock.

robbing with a sword is a good thing
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:15 PM   #18
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All I have to say is the M249 my brother had to lug through combat in Afghanistan weighs 22lbs loaded, add extra amo and all the other necessary combat gear and you are looking at a lot if weight that needs to be carried around, and it's not like there is breaks or rest time while in combat.
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:42 PM   #19
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^ A soldier's back pack weighs 40lbs. If all things have to be equal in combat, I don't see many women who can carry all of that weight around and still move freely. Strength standards will have to be different for men and women for sure. Only elite women will be able to make it to combat positions.

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Old 01-04-2014, 07:48 PM   #20
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^ A soldier's back pack weighs 40lbs. If all things have to be equal in combat, I don't see many women who can carry all of that weight around and still move freely. Strength standards will have to be different for men and women for sure. Only elite women will be able to make it to combat positions.
That's one light ass backpack.


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