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Old 01-24-2013, 03:56 PM   #61
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Dabears is a nutrition beast. Great info in this thread as I'm tryin to bulk up a little.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:16 PM   #62
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Every so often I have to eat at my cafeteria. Two meals a week. What's better for me? A big burrito and apple, or a double turkey burger with bacon and apple
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:20 AM   #63
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:25 AM   #64
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Every so often I have to eat at my cafeteria. Two meals a week. What's better for me? A big burrito and apple, or a double turkey burger with bacon and apple
We'd need to know exactly what is in each.

If it's just ground turkey then I'd say the burger.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:28 AM   #65
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Every so often I have to eat at my cafeteria. Two meals a week. What's better for me? A big burrito and apple, or a double turkey burger with bacon and apple
Either or!!!!! Just eat!!!
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:31 AM   #66
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Either or!!!!! Just eat!!!
lol he's trying to cut dude. We all can't do what you do haha.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:35 AM   #67
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lol he's trying to cut dude. We all can't do what you do haha.
Sure you can! I am not special! I eat big and lift big (..and I'm a volume lifter ) and I'm more cut/defined than everybody who nitpicks calories and is TRYING to cut. It's not because I'm black either! I eat to lift, not the other way around.

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Old 01-25-2013, 10:03 AM   #68
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Sure you can! I am not special! I eat big and lift big (..and I'm a volume lifter ) and I'm more cut/defined than everybody who nitpicks calories and is TRYING to cut. It's not because I'm black either! I eat to lift, not the other way around.
you are definitely an exception. The amount of unclean food you eat vs the way you look says it all. Source:look at me, dabears and many others. We work our ass off and eat cleaner and look nothing like you. For some people this will work, most it will not. If someones goal is to get abs having them stuff their faces and just workout hard isn't going to get them where they want to be. A hard workout and clean diet will.

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Old 01-25-2013, 10:42 AM   #69
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based on what I assume whootys diet/training has been like , I think he may be somewhat in m3inline territory... could be wrong. I'm thinking if this guy cleaned up his diet a bit and made his workouts more intense he would have a six pack in no time.

I think m3inline has some genetics in his favour, but I think his overall muscle mass and the fact he is currently (and for all I know has always been) very lean gives him a great advantage with diet, something I am hoping to achieve as well. The leaner you are + more muscle mass you have allows you more leniency in your diet (increased metabolism and lectin sensitivity). And from his food postings, he seems to eat a lot of chicken and rice, with a somewhat limited fat intake (besides the in and out burger, but you did say hold the mayo ). These are all assumptions of course!
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:03 AM   #70
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based on what I assume whootys diet/training has been like , I think he may be somewhat in m3inline territory... could be wrong. I'm thinking if this guy cleaned up his diet a bit and made his workouts more intense he would have a six pack in no time.

I think m3inline has some genetics in his favour, but I think his overall muscle mass and the fact he is currently (and for all I know has always been) very lean gives him a great advantage with diet, something I am hoping to achieve as well. The leaner you are + more muscle mass you have allows you more leniency in your diet (increased metabolism and lectin sensitivity). And from his food postings, he seems to eat a lot of chicken and rice, with a somewhat limited fat intake (besides the in and out burger, but you did say hold the mayo ). These are all assumptions of course!
I do think you'r right. I have been eating pretty unclean lately and see no change in bf but I know a while back when I was much sloppier I'd see even more fat come about. It's interesting how more muscle makes it harder to gain fat.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:39 AM   #71
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you are definitely an exception. The amount of unclean food you eat vs the way you look says it all. Source:look at me, dabears and many others. We work our ass off and eat cleaner and look nothing like you. For some people this will work, most it will not. If someones goal is to get abs having them stuff their faces and just workout hard isn't going to get them where they want to be. A hard workout and clean diet will.
The amount of unclean food that I eat is far overshadowed by the amount of clean food that I eat (..and by clean I mean made at home, not fast food, etc.). I'm largely a simple eater: chicken & rice with the occasional veggies mixed in. You guys look different because you workout differently. I've always been a heavy lifter since the genesis of my lifting career. My body is representative of that. It's not that my compulsive eating won't work for most people, it's that my level of activity is different than that of most people. People can eat clean their entire lives and still never get ripped (..I see those types all of the time). There's more to it than that, and there are pieces missing from their individual puzzles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dabears View Post
based on what I assume whootys diet/training has been like , I think he may be somewhat in m3inline territory... could be wrong. I'm thinking if this guy cleaned up his diet a bit and made his workouts more intense he would have a six pack in no time.

I think m3inline has some genetics in his favour, but I think his overall muscle mass and the fact he is currently (and for all I know has always been) very lean gives him a great advantage with diet, something I am hoping to achieve as well. The leaner you are + more muscle mass you have allows you more leniency in your diet (increased metabolism and lectin sensitivity). And from his food postings, he seems to eat a lot of chicken and rice, with a somewhat limited fat intake (besides the in and out burger, but you did say hold the mayo ). These are all assumptions of course!
Trust me, I can put on fat just like anybody else. Maybe not in the same quantities, but I am definitely capable of smoothing out. There was a period in '08 in which I dropped the intensity of my workouts but still ate the same. While I was still pretty lean, I definitely had the "smooth belly" look. I'm not immune to fat gain. You also hit the nail on the head dabears. I eat A LOT of chicken and rice, and what I post on here is a very limited view of what I eat all day. The random In & Out burger or pizza isn't substantial enough to derail what my diet and workouts provide for me. In fact, I'm ridiculously strong the day after I consume a pizza because of the carb load.

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Old 01-25-2013, 11:44 AM   #72
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The amount of unclean food that I eat is far overshadowed by the amount of clean food that I eat (..and by clean I mean made at home, not fast food, etc.). I'm largely a simple eater: chicken & rice with the occasional veggies mixed in. You guys look different because you workout differently. I've always been a heavy lifter since the genesis of my lifting career. My body is representative of that. It's not that my compulsive eating won't work for most people, it's that my level of activity is different than that of most people. People can eat clean their entire lives and still never get ripped (..I see those types all of the time). There's more to it than that, and there are pieces missing from their individual puzzles.




Trust me, I can put on fat just like anybody else. Maybe not in the same quantities, but I am definitely capable of smoothing out. There was a period in '08 in which I dropped the intensity of my workouts but still ate the same. While I was still pretty lean, I definitely had the "smooth belly" look. I'm not immune to fat gain. You also hit the nail on the head dabears. I eat A LOT of chicken and rice, and what I post on here is a very limited view of what I eat all day. The random In & Out burger or pizza isn't substantial enough to derail what my diet and workouts provide for me. In fact, I'm ridiculously strong the day after I consume a pizza because of the carb load.
I guess my perception of your diet is this:

Pizza
ice cream
Chicken and Rice

That's why I said you must be different than most.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 01-25-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:57 AM   #73
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I guess my perception of your diet is this:

Pizza
ice cream
Chicken and Rice

That's why I said you must be different than most.
To some degree you're right, but....I eat chicken and rice (..and a sh|tload of bacon, eggs and oatmeal) probably 5 times a day........every day!......with the random tasty treat in the form of an ice cream sundae (..usually just Golden Spoon frozen yogurt; usually low fat or fat free, and it's not calorie dense at all), a pizza, a Chick-Fil-A sandwich/nuggets or a burger tossed in to keep me sane. Otherwise, it's chicken & rice ad nauseum.

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Old 01-25-2013, 11:59 AM   #74
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Yeah, I'm glad you aren't arguing science. The 80/20 rule when it comes to clean diet vs cheating is a great example of how a few "bad" meals a week won't derail you. If you stopped working out with your current intensity and kept eating the same, you significantly lowered your calorie burn from straight exercise and the accompanying metabolic increase, and kept your intake constant... giving you your 08 results.

I never try and play the genetics card, because I think 99% of the time whoever is using it is full of bs and something else is wrong with their training /diet!

I'm so close (imo) to having enough lean muscle mass to maintain a 10-12% bodyfat for life, once I complete my spring cut. I'm very excited
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:28 PM   #75
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So I guess i'm trying to eat 2100 calories a day? Should there be an amount of protein I should be aiming for? The fitnesspal app is really nice. I'm using it today, if you add me as a friend you can see what i've eaten right?

Should I be more interested in getting right on 2100, slightly less, slightly more?
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:29 PM   #76
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Amount of fat I should be going for?
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:46 PM   #77
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So I guess i'm trying to eat 2100 calories a day? Should there be an amount of protein I should be aiming for? The fitnesspal app is really nice. I'm using it today, if you add me as a friend you can see what i've eaten right?

Should I be more interested in getting right on 2100, slightly less, slightly more?
If you choose to cut, follow this post. You may see slight strength gains as well, but it will be minimal, and probably will just offset the slight muscle loss on rest days. If you want to gain muscle, you will need a different diet strategy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here you go, try and follow this as best you can and report back. If its too complicated for your lifestyle, then changes can be made.

Workout 3 days a week, ensuring you have included all the big compound lifts at minimum (bench/deadlift/squat/press) and add in some pullups/chinups/pushups/dips. You don't need a bodybuilding type split. If you want example routines just ask. This leaves 4 days for fat loss.

Workout days = 2700 calories, with an emphasis on quality protein sources and carbs, while limiting fat.

On workout days, eat chicken breast or fish for your protein source for lunch & dinner (if you buy it frozen its cheaper) with your current breakfast, and add in a protein shake post workout with some simple carbs from chocolate milk or chocolate almond milk etc (almond milk is delicious and doesn't come with the added fat) post workout. Include vegetables like spinach, kale, broccoli, cauliflower, etc. with your lunch and dinner (any kind of salad with oil/vinegar based dressing is great), and add in a baked potato / mashed sweet potato or rice with your dinner.

Rest days (the fat burning days) = 2100 calories, with an attempt to limit carbs to salads/vegetables/fruit only... allowing for more fatty types of meat / food to be consumed.

These are the days where you can enjoy things like bacon, whole eggs, fatty fish, ribeye steaks, dairy, hummus, etc. Replace the potato with your dinner with a salad (I love greek salad) and don't have a protein shake. Chicken can become beef/fish or chicken thighs, pork chops etc. Try and keep all meat cuts to 8 oz or less. By eliminating the protein shake and carbs, you will easily be 2100 calories or under.

If this is too confusing (cycling the way you eat) let me know.

For cheat meals, limit them to workout days. If you want to go out drinking, limit your protein source to chicken, consume little to no fat, and workout that day. Limit drinking to 1 day a week. We all stray from the diet, its just doing it in the best way possible that stops it from hurting you.

Notice the lack of cardio? It isn't required, but if you want to add it so you can eat more (especially things like pasta) go ahead. I prefer to just cut out the food and play sports instead of running on a treadmill etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want macro targets for your myfitnesspal app, here they are (I didn't include them originally as I didn't want to confuse you).

These are approximate values:

Workout day:

2700 calories

200g protein
370g carbs
55g fat

Rest day:

2100 calories

200g protein
90g carbs
120g fat

Focus more on working out intensely, and cooking from home as much as possible with meals that fit the generic makeup of the above...

Workout days are lean protein sources like chicken, with lean carb choices like potatoes or rice

Rest days are fattier protein sources like chicken thighs, ribeye steaks, fish etc with carbs coming from vegetables only. Delicious things like avocados, sour cream, bacon, etc are welcomed on this day. Cook vegetables in butter, it won't matter.

Hope this helps. If you need clarification just ask.

Don't overthink things... follow this hierarchy of importance:

1. Calorie intake vs expenditure controls whether you gain or lose weight.
2. The macronutrient composition of your diet (carbs/fats/protein) controls the ratio of how much fat vs muscle is lost/gained.
3. Nutrient timing, for the non-athlete, is a very distant third.

Good luck if you pursue the cut!
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:13 PM   #78
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Some of my favorite snacks are cucumbers, (peeled and sliced) with a little salt and pepper, kiwi fruits, bananas, yoplait original yogurt (no unnatural ingredients).

You can take flour tortillas, slice them into triangles, brush with olive oil and bake for about 15 minutes at 350, then sprinkle with hidden valley ranch seasoning packet (the simple less strict version of my recipe) for ranch dorritos.

Also mix 2 cups rolled oats, 2/3 cup brown sugar, 1/2 cup wheat germ, a good amount of cinnamon, a cup of flour, a little salt, 1/2 cup honey, 1 egg, and a little under half cup of vegetable oil all together. I also add a good amount of fresh nuts that i crush up for more protein. Then bake at 350 for about 30 minutes (if the edge turns brown a little the should be crunchy when they cool). You'll have some amazing granola bars.

I spread peanut butter on them when i eat them, more protein, and it's delicious. I also make about 3-4x that recipe when i make then so i have a good 2 weeks supply. They're great snacks!

Green bell pepper sliced with a little salt and or soy sauce is a good snack.

Cook with extra virgin olive oil instead of butter.

Hope i was some help.

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Old 01-25-2013, 06:15 PM   #79
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So yeah, it's Friday and I'm ordering a pizza..........screw clean eating for the day! I might even eat some Golden Spoon frozen yogurt in DylloS's honor. I will then enter the gym tomorrow on some super-carb-sh|t and put up some good weight. Yeah baby!

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Old 01-28-2013, 10:59 AM   #80
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Ok so if I don't get enough carbs then I could be losing muscle?
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