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Old 01-24-2013, 05:28 PM   #41
Lair
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Originally Posted by kaput View Post
I honestly think part of the point you are missing is that we were lied to.
Prove it or ST FU.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:30 PM   #42
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Good luck proving that they lied.
1. Hilarious coming from you considering your whole gimmick is that Bush intentionally lied concerning Iraq/WMD's

2. It already has been proven. The information is public and we know what they were told (planned 9/11 anniversary terrorist attack) within the 1-2 hours of the attack happening. I know you're not the best at reading and stuff, but it is all there.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:32 PM   #43
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Don't get mad because I'm using your gimmick.

Fvcking PROVE IT.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:45 PM   #44
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2. It already has been proven. The information is public and we know what they were told (planned 9/11 anniversary terrorist attack) within the 1-2 hours of the attack happening. I know you're not the best at reading and stuff, but it is all there.
true, but that's after the fact our Govt figured it out. lol
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:32 PM   #45
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Don't get mad because I'm using your gimmick.

Fvcking PROVE IT.
Wow, all you have left is I'm rubber you're glue? I wouldn't blame you for asphyxiaitng yourself tonight while you rub one out crying
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:32 PM   #46
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I just want you to hold yourself to your own lofty standards.

PROVE IT.



And please, try to stop fantasizing about me. It's creepy.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:42 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
I understand. I appreciate that you, unlike some other members in this forum, actually took the time to clearly articulate why you feel this way.

Perhaps I am simply more desensitized to these types of smoke and mirrors than others.
What grinds my gears is the lack of response from the administration. Not regarding the attacks, cause no one truly knows who was available...

But Susan Rice comes out on national television, states it was a video and protest... And NOTHING WAS DONE.

All Obama or Billary had to do was at the many press conferences and media opportunities they had (and they had many) was to say the following.

"I would like to clear up a statement that has been made regarding the attacks in Bengazi. Some information was told to the press stating this attack was started as a protest to a video, and that the protest got out of hand. It is our belief, and has been from day one that this is not the case. We would like to clarify this was a deliberate attack against the embassy, and we are working hard to not only find those involved and bring them to justice, but to reveal all information regarding the incident. This was not a random attack by protestors... This was a terrorist attack against America."

End of story. Did they do this while Susan Rice was talking to the press? Nope. Did they do this a day or two after Susan Rice lied? Nope. Did they wait until a story developed, showing video proof that this was not a protest? Kinda. It took an awful long time to say it was terrorism, and an orchestrated attack. That is the lie. All the "proof" you need is out there for you to see. I would post the videos of the event, and the dragging out of the bodies, the men armed with RPGs, and the fires but I think you can look for yourselves.

If you disagree, fine, but it does not change the fact that the administration did not come clean, until it was already out there. At anytime before the story broke, it would have changed everything, at least for me. The administration was worried about the election, and approval ratings, and after Rice leaked a "story", they felt they needed to stick with it and hope it was never uncovered. A very deceptive practice, and ultimately a lie. Caught red handed, without an apology. All the pandering from Clinton is nothing more than her trying to save face. If you cannot see it, you are either blind, ignorant or flat out the pivot man in this circle jerk we call the government.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:44 AM   #48
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I just want you to hold yourself to your own lofty standards.

PROVE IT.
I have proven time and time again both sides of the aisle were for a war with Iraq, since 1998... How bout you prove they didn't lie. Lets hold you to your "lofty standards".

Feel free to circumvent this with a witty comment, or a funny gif, or just change the subject all together. It's okay, we know how you operate. No proof, no argument...

And I'll provide mine after you provide yours.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:07 AM   #49
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I have proven time and time again both sides of the aisle were for a war with Iraq, since 1998... How bout you prove they didn't lie. Lets hold you to your "lofty standards".
You mean aside from the fact that there were no WMDs in Iraq?
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:14 AM   #50
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You mean aside from the fact that there were no WMDs in Iraq?



That's a fact that guys like kaput will ignore until the end of time.

Nobody wanted a ground invasion of Iraq - not even Dubyas own daddy. He was in saddam's back yard and didnt pull the trigger on a ground assault.

Just make shlt up as you go along.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:41 AM   #51
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You mean aside from the fact that there were no WMDs in Iraq?
That isn't proof that they believed WMD's were there, that is only proof that they were wrong. Do you really not understand the difference?
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:44 AM   #52
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You mean aside from the fact that there were no WMDs in Iraq?
That does not prove a lie on W. do me a favor. Look up the vote count. Look up video of the hearings where both sides of the aisle are discussing what they should do. Hell, look up Iraq as far back as 1998. You will see a massive push from Hillary, Biden, Dean, Albright and many others claiming the intelligence community knows for certain wmds exist.

Did they? Nope. And that's the beauty. Everyone with minimal exception pushed for regime change, and most of America was behind it. Was it the best idea with hindsight and all? Nope, but it was unanimous bipartisan support, backing the president. When the found nothing, political pressure and left wing pandering to save face happened like always, and they still lost the election.

That is all the proof I need. It was not W and only W. so, on Benghazi, I say the entire administration failed to tell the truth. They followed a lie/story, and hoped the truth wouldn't come out, and it did. PROVE I am wrong.

Go ahead. Prove it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:03 AM   #53
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"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:11 AM   #54
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That isn't proof that they believed WMD's were there, that is only proof that they were wrong. Do you really not understand the difference?
So what you are getting at? A group think issue or faulty intelligence?
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:12 AM   #55
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Talk is cheap.

Ground invasions based on fear of nukes are expensive - especially when no evidence of nukes was ever found.


And everybody that voted to invade did so because BushCo presented a case that was ultimately proven false. There are no WmD in Iraq, and there were none when BushCo told that lie. Half if the world knew it was a lie.

Now get back to proving that someone in the Obama administration lied about Benghazi. I'll be right here waiting for you to put up or shut the fvck up.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:15 AM   #56
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Um it has already been proven, over and over again
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:24 AM   #57
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In the feeble minds of the rightwing flock.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:25 AM   #58
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So what you are getting at? A group think issue or faulty intelligence?
Still waiting Act of Obama.

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That does not prove a lie on W. do me a favor. Look up the vote count. Look up video of the hearings where both sides of the aisle are discussing what they should do. Hell, look up Iraq as far back as 1998. You will see a massive push from Hillary, Biden, Dean, Albright and many others claiming the intelligence community knows for certain wmds exist.

Did they? Nope. And that's the beauty. Everyone with minimal exception pushed for regime change, and most of America was behind it. Was it the best idea with hindsight and all? Nope, but it was unanimous bipartisan support, backing the president. When the found nothing, political pressure and left wing pandering to save face happened like always, and they still lost the election.

That is all the proof I need. It was not W and only W. so, on Benghazi, I say the entire administration failed to tell the truth. They followed a lie/story, and hoped the truth wouldn't come out, and it did. PROVE I am wrong.

Go ahead. Prove it.
Glad you set the bar low for yourself. Let me get this right, because enough people believed it, and people from both sides believed it, it makes it true?

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Old 01-25-2013, 09:38 AM   #59
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So what you are getting at? A group think issue or faulty intelligence?
I'm working dude, jesus give me 10 minutes to respond. I believe it was a combination of faulty intelligence and the US wanting WMD's to be there because we needed to vent our anger after 9/11.

As per the quotes I already posted, we thought Iraq had WMD's well before GW even took office.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:56 AM   #60
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Talk is cheap.

Ground invasions based on fear of nukes are expensive - especially when no evidence of nukes was ever found.


And everybody that voted to invade did so because BushCo presented a case that was ultimately proven false. There are no WmD in Iraq, and there were none when BushCo told that lie. Half if the world knew it was a lie.
That is straight up false. BushCo did not present the plan. It was initially designed by ClintonCo, and because of a scandal, only reached it's peak with bombing aspirin factories. 9/11 was a catalyst, and the powers that be, pushed the agenda. Bush did not have the power to go to war. He can declare it but needed congressional approval, and he got that bipartisan approval with no question. Learn some history other than what CNN tells you.

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Still waiting Act of Obama.



Glad you set the bar low for yourself. Let me get this right, because enough people believed it, and people from both sides believed it, it makes it true?
No. You are making this too black and white. To say Bush lied is a falsehood. We had been hearing about WMDs in Iraq for 3 years before 9/11, and it was a hot topic on many minds in washington. It was pushed, and pushed and discussed until the idea was just knowledge. The WORLD intelligence said the same thing at the time. Weapons inspectors said the same thing. It was common knowledge at the time that this was true. Using 9/11 as a catalyst, the plan was put into motion. It was drafted and signed on 9/10/2001. I think they knew about the attack, and wanted to use it as a pretext for war, but that is another story all together.

In the end, it turned out to be false. No WMDs anywhere. Does that mean Bush lied? No. It means the entire intelligence agency, the majority of our nations leaders, and our allies pushed for regime change, and used bad intelligence to do it. Was it the right decision? Depends on your outlook. Saddam not being in power to kill tens of thousands of his own people is a good thing. Our dead soldiers are not.

While it may in fact be seen as a lie by some (lair for one), it is the same thing that happened with benghazi. Tell a story, stick to it. Stuff happens. People find out. People ask a few questions, the truth starts to filter out, and the prospective party leg humpers take sides. The only difference in the situations is that Iraq was being pushed and designed far before Bush took office, and had overwhelming support from this nation and allies. Benghazi was our highest ranking officials not doing something to clear up the truth, and getting caught with their pants down.

For all the posturing you do Lair, you should be just as outraged at Obama and his administration for the way this was handled, as you are with "BushCo" for their indiscretions with Iraq. You are just showing your true colors and party affiliations in your opinions on the matter.

I for one find both situations appalling. Iraq was not a target we should have pursued after 9/11, but because of bad intelligence, and a push from many ClintonCo people, we went. Benghazi should have been addressed by the president himself, when it happened, and it should have been a case of "this happened, ahhhhh we are learning more about it... ahhhhh, I'll update when I can... ahhhh.... Justice.... ahhhhhh.... Will be served.... ahhhhhh and you can be sure... ahhh let me make this clear.... ahhhh we will find who did this, and justice will ahhh.... be served."
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