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Suspension & Braking
Have some questions about suspension or brake setups for your E46 BMW? Get all your answers here!

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Old 02-04-2013, 10:43 AM   #1
Mctwist77
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Replaced subframe, still clunk when shifting, even with car off. Help please!

Okay so here's a little history, I have replaced the guibo, all rear subframe bushings including the big differential one and I have replaced the transmission mounts. I did not replace the CSB because I looked fine when I looked at it, there were no tears in the rubber. So heres the issue, even with the car OFF if I go to put in into first gear I hear a clunk and it sounds like its coming from the rear, but I dont understand how that is possible since the driveshaft isnt even spinning. The clunk also occurs when the car is on. The noise has been significantly reduced since I replaced the bushing but I was expecting it to go away. Could it be possible that even though my CSB looks and feels good (no excessive play when I wiggled it) it could be bad? Where is this clunk coming from?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:49 AM   #2
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Also, could I have a bad U-joint in my driveshaft?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:55 AM   #3
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Or incorrectly installed guibo?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:56 AM   #4
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Just a hunch, but it sounds like the differential mount.

Here is a DIY
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=668682
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:58 AM   #5
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Or incorrectly installed guibo?
That would vibrate the shifter at higher RPMs
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:59 AM   #6
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Yeah I just replaced that on Friday. I replaced all mounts for the differential and all bushing where the subframe meets the frame. Do you think it could be internal?
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:05 AM   #7
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Yeah I just replaced that on Friday. I replaced all mounts for the differential and all bushing where the subframe meets the frame. Do you think it could be internal?
Internal as in within the diff?
I suppose so, it is mechanical, but I wouldn't jump the gun yet.

Who did the work?

Consider checking, or getting the work double checked.
I know this job is pretty gnarly, and it could simply be an oversight.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:05 AM   #8
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Sounds like your guido needs more hair gel.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:09 AM   #9
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Sounds like your guido needs more hair gel.
What do you mean by that?
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:10 AM   #10
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Internal as in within the diff?
I suppose so, it is mechanical, but I wouldn't jump the gun yet.

Who did the work?

Consider checking, or getting the work double checked.
I know this job is pretty gnarly, and it could simply be an oversight.
I did all the work. Yeah I'm going to go under this weekend and look at it again. I do have driveline slop but its not excessive.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:26 AM   #11
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Get someone to run it on a lift
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:33 AM   #12
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Will do. Want to take any guesses? haha
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:35 AM   #13
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Okay so here's a little history, I have replaced the guibo, all rear subframe bushings including the big differential one and I have replaced the transmission mounts. I did not replace the CSB because I looked fine when I looked at it, there were no tears in the rubber. So heres the issue, even with the car OFF if I go to put in into first gear I hear a clunk and it sounds like its coming from the rear, but I dont understand how that is possible since the driveshaft isnt even spinning. The clunk also occurs when the car is on. The noise has been significantly reduced since I replaced the bushing but I was expecting it to go away. Could it be possible that even though my CSB looks and feels good (no excessive play when I wiggled it) it could be bad? Where is this clunk coming from?
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Also, could I have a bad U-joint in my driveshaft?
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Or incorrectly installed guibo?

I honestly do not see how it could be any of those things, if you say you hear the noise when moving the shifter with the car OFF. All of the components you listed would need to be rotating to make any sort of clunking noise.
The only possibilities I can think of would be an internal issue in the transmission or shift and/or clutch linkage, that is somehow resonating to the rear of the car. It could be a bad syncro, or something loose in the shift linkage. It would be fairly easy to get under the car, and check out the linkage. The best way to isolate it would be to get the car on jack stands, and have someone sit inside the car, and shift through the gears with the car OFF. You could get under the car, and try to isolate the source.
It is possible for a bushing to make a noise when the car is not moving, and the motor off, in some cases. But it sounds like you have covered most of those.
One remote possibility could be the upper rear shock mounts, which may be making a clunking noise when you are sitting in the car with the engine off, shifting through the gears.

Are you sure you can hear the noise when the car is off, and you are just moving the gears?! I would think that you getting under the car while someone inside shifts through the gears with the car off.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:39 AM   #14
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Before everyone submits their guesses for the usual suspects, please note that the OP stated that he can hear the noise with the car OFF, while shifting through the gears!
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:42 AM   #15
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Yeah I can hear it when the car is off and I shift into first or reverse. I would say it happens 75% of the time, but sometimes if I push the clutch in release it then push it in again right after the clunk would go away for that shift.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #16
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I will look at the shift linkage as well
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:44 AM   #17
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Its just frustrating because I did all that work and the noise still isn't completely gone
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:05 PM   #18
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I honestly do not see how it could be any of those things, if you say you hear the noise when moving the shifter with the car OFF. All of the components you listed would need to be rotating to make any sort of clunking noise.
The only possibilities I can think of would be an internal issue in the transmission or shift and/or clutch linkage, that is somehow resonating to the rear of the car. It could be a bad syncro, or something loose in the shift linkage. It would be fairly easy to get under the car, and check out the linkage. The best way to isolate it would be to get the car on jack stands, and have someone sit inside the car, and shift through the gears with the car OFF. You could get under the car, and try to isolate the source.
It is possible for a bushing to make a noise when the car is not moving, and the motor off, in some cases. But it sounds like you have covered most of those.
One remote possibility could be the upper rear shock mounts, which may be making a clunking noise when you are sitting in the car with the engine off, shifting through the gears.

Are you sure you can hear the noise when the car is off, and you are just moving the gears?! I would think that you getting under the car while someone inside shifts through the gears with the car off.
Thanks for your help. Question though, how could an issue with shift linkage cause a noise in the rear?

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Old 02-04-2013, 12:58 PM   #19
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Yeah I can hear it when the car is off and I shift into first or reverse. I would say it happens 75% of the time, but sometimes if I push the clutch in release it then push it in again right after the clunk would go away for that shift.
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Thanks for your help. Question though, how could an issue with shift linkage cause a noise in the rear?

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I'm not saying for sure that it would cause noise in the rear. I am wondering if the sound is resonating through the trans and driveshaft, making it sound like it is in the rear. Normally, I would think this was a very low probability. But, the fact that you say you can hear it when the car is off, and nothing is moving except the clutch and gearshift/trans makes me think that it is most likely something with those items.
A bushing, driveshaft, U-joint, guibo, or subframe and diff bushings are not going to make noise when the car is off, and nothing is moving. I suppose anything is possible, but it does not make any logical sense. Does that make sense to you?
So, you would think that the noise is most likely coming from the only things you are moving - the clutch and its linkage, the shifter, trans mounts, and the transmission internals. Right? Nothing else is moving, so how could it make noise?

Your comment about pushing in the clutch once, and then pressing it again before shifting making the noise go away is interesting.
-Have you had the replaced, or removed the transmission recently?
-Did you replace your starter recently, and removed or loosened any of the trans mounting bolts to get it out?
-Have you checked your trans mounts? Have you replaced them recently?

Also, can you give a detailed, step by step description of exactly what you do when you hear the noise with the car off?

At first, this sounds like a normal bad bushing or driveshaft/guibo/center support bearing issue. But the fact that you can hear it with the car off, and nothing moving seems to rule out all of those things.

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Old 02-04-2013, 02:24 PM   #20
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Before everyone submits their guesses for the usual suspects, please note that the OP stated that he can hear the noise with the car OFF, while shifting through the gears!
Precisely
This is why I suggested Diff bushing.

I know he replaced it, but it could be loose, about 70ft/lbs for those external torx bolts.

OP, Another thing that I have read is where someone had observed their diff had play at the mount when fully torqued, and he attributed it to the bolts being a bit smaller than the actual mounting hole.
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