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Old 02-05-2013, 10:16 AM   #1
bimmerfan08
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Memo sets rationale to kill Qaida-linked citizens

..WASHINGTON (AP) — An internal Justice Department memo says it is legal for the government to kill U.S. citizens abroad if it believes they are senior al-Qaida leaders continually engaged in operations aimed at killing Americans.

The document provides a legal rationale behind the Obama administration's use of drone strikes against al-Qaida suspects.

The 16-page document says it is lawful to target al-Qaida linked U.S. citizens if they pose an "imminent" threat of violent attack against Americans, and that delaying action against such people would create an unacceptably high risk. Such circumstances may necessitate expanding the concept of imminent threat, the memo says.

"The threat posed by al-Qaida and its associated forces demands a broader concept of imminence in judging when a person continually planning terror attacks presents an imminent threat," the document added.

A September 2011 drone strike in Yemen killed Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan, both U.S. citizens.

The memo does not require the U.S. to have information about a specific imminent attack against the U.S. But it does require that capture of a terrorist suspect not be feasible and that any such lethal operation by the United States targeting a person comply with fundamental law-of-war principles.

"A decision maker determining whether an al-Qaida operational leader presents an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States must take into account that certain members of Al-Qaida ... are continually plotting attacks against the United States" and that "al-Qaida would engage in such attacks regularly to the extent it were able to do so," says the document, which was reported by NBC.

The document also says that a decision maker must take into account that "the U.S. government may not be aware of all al-Qaida plots as they are developing and thus cannot be confident that none is about to occur; and that ... the nation may have a limited window of opportunity within which to strike in a manner that both has a high likelihood of success and reduces the probability of American casualties."

With this understanding, the document added, a high-level official could conclude, for example, that an individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States where he is an operational leader of al-Qaida or an associated force and is personally and continually involved in planning terrorist attacks against the United States.

The American Civil Liberties Union said the document is "profoundly disturbing."

"It's hard to believe that it was produced in a democracy built on a system of checks and balances," the ACLU said.

The document says that the use of lethal force would not violate the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution when a targeted person is an operational leader of an enemy force and an informed, high-level government official has determined that he poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the U.S.

The document said the courts have no role to play in the matter.

"Under the circumstances described in this paper, there exists no appropriate judicial forum to evaluate these constitutional considerations. It is well established that 'matters intimately related to foreign policy, and national security are rarely proper subjects for judicial intervention,'" the white paper said.

http://news.yahoo.com/memo-sets-rati...-politics.html
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:36 AM   #2
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:39 AM   #3
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This would qualify as a Bush war crime, just saying
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:48 AM   #4
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This would qualify as a Bush war crime, just saying
And the debt didn't matter when Bush was POTUS, either. Funny how politicians operate.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:05 PM   #5
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And the debt didn't matter when Bush was POTUS, either. Funny how politicians operate.
People like to live that dream that Bush walked into office with clean sheet from Clinton. That's not true. Clinton left with roughly $6 trillion in debt. Bush Left with 8 trillion. Simple math reveals he was responsible for
$2 Trillion.

At the moment, we sit at $16 Trillion.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:06 PM   #6
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But back to the topic. We need to provide out clandestine operations to flow without handcuffing them. We live in a world where snap decisions affect national security.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:08 PM   #7
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People like to live that dream that Bush walked into office with clean sheet from Clinton. That's not true. Clinton left with roughly $6 trillion in debt. Bush Left with 8 trillion. Simple math reveals he was responsible for
$2 Trillion.

At the moment, we sit at $16 Trillion.
Bush left office halfway through a renovation of the Middle East. Guess who is stuck paying that bill.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:36 PM   #8
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Bush left office halfway through a renovation of the Middle East. Guess who is stuck paying that bill.
But where else are we going to get our oil from?
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:46 PM   #9
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Don't want to get killed abroad? Don't be an AQ senior leader involved with operations to kill Americans.

I see no issue here.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:54 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Carskibum View Post
People like to live that dream that Bush walked into office with clean sheet from Clinton. That's not true. Clinton left with roughly $6 trillion in debt. Bush Left with 8 trillion. Simple math reveals he was responsible for
$2 Trillion.

At the moment, we sit at $16 Trillion.
Yes, but the trend line when Clinton left office was decidedly down while when Bush left office -- aiming to eliminate the debt in a decade or something, it was skyrocketing (and that's just the deficit and debt that was on the books, never mind those two reckless wars put on credit card) and left the economy in a smoldering heap for Obama to save, salvage and repair, which required a huge amount of money.

So, when looked at in total, I would lay the lion's share of our current debt directly or indirectly upon the Bush era.

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Old 02-05-2013, 02:56 PM   #11
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Honestly, don't see much wrong with this. Don't want a drone up your a$$, don't be a terrorist.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:57 PM   #12
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But where else are we going to get our oil from?
Ah, but the underlying reason for our Iraq misadventure reveals itself. Perhaps if we weren't so gluttonous and didn't need so much oil for our energy needs...

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:40 PM   #13
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You guys are absolutely hilarious here. Lethal drone strikes on assumed guilty citizens are ok now that Obama is president? Damn, weren't you guys just flipping your lids over waterboarding?
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:43 PM   #14
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You guys are absolutely hilarious here. Lethal drone strikes on assumed guilty citizens are ok now that Obama is president? Damn, weren't you guys just flipping your lids over waterboarding?
Not I
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:58 PM   #15
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This constant one-upping and hypocrisy-pointing-out exhibitions do absolutely nothing to enhance political discourse. Nobody is seriously challenging the executive branch when it comes to authorized killings of Americans with ties to terrorists who travel overseas. The public doesn't care about it and neither do the Republicans in Congress. Give it a rest. Pointing out that the media crucified Bush for lesser "crimes" is just pointless score keeping that makes politics into a game when it should be about getting the right set of policies in place.

Who here actually disagrees with the Obama administration on this particular subject?
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:06 PM   #16
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This constant one-upping and hypocrisy-pointing-out exhibitions do absolutely nothing to enhance political discourse. Nobody is seriously challenging the executive branch when it comes to authorized killings of Americans with ties to terrorists who travel overseas. The public doesn't care about it and neither do the Republicans in Congress. Give it a rest. Pointing out that the media crucified Bush for lesser "crimes" is just pointless score keeping that makes politics into a game when it should be about getting the right set of policies in place.

Who here actually disagrees with the Obama administration on this particular subject?
Our criminal justice system and constitution disagree with it. There are plenty of known criminals, we can't just go round them up too. We are innocent until proven guilty, and the burden of proof is on the state. Terrorists are criminals.

I never would have pegged you for someone to casually disregard the constitutional rights of others just because it seems like a good idea. Also, you have to point out the hypocrisy because otherwise you will only have the MSM narrative inundating the people with one-sided BS.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:09 PM   #17
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Our criminal justice system and constitution disagree with it. There are plenty of known criminals, we can't just go round them up too. We are innocent until proven guilty, and the burden of proof is on the state.

I never would have pegged you for someone to casually disregard the constitutional rights of others just because it seems like a good idea.
Terrorists hold a different status. Hooray!
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:13 PM   #18
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Terrorists hold a different status. Hooray!
I would like to further elaborate, I do not have a problem if an American citizen who is associated with AQ is killed by collateral damage. They chose to be there, not my problem. I have a problem with directed and specific drone strikes on American citizens without a trial (or even being formally charged).
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #19
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I haven't examined it in detail, but at first brush, it strikes me as being too close to Bush's broad assumptions and assertions of power under his Unitary Executive theory that was chiefly propounded by the shadow White House, i.e., Cheney.

That said, at least their trying to put down some policies on paper rather even if those policies still need to LOT of work yet. Unfortunately, the Congress doesn't really seem interested in taking the lead on this either -- the Dems don't want to impinge upon their own guy and the Repubs, beyond some perfunctory and reflexive dinging of Obama on, well, anything, generally are more hierarchical and are more comfortable with a forceful Executive branch, particularly in war and security issues. The Supreme Court just doesn't seem to want to touch this issue with a ten foot pole if they can in any way avoid it.

There may well be rational and Constitutional justifications for extra-judicial drone attacks as well as torture (let's call it for what it is, not sugar coat it under the Orwellian euphemism of "enhanced interrogation."), but, in a Constitutional democracy, those rationales and their ensuing policies should be clearly spelled out.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:01 PM   #20
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I would like to further elaborate, I do not have a problem if an American citizen who is associated with AQ is killed by collateral damage. They chose to be there, not my problem. I have a problem with directed and specific drone strikes on American citizens without a trial (or even being formally charged).
So terrorism is a criminal act and not an act of war?
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