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Old 02-08-2013, 03:56 PM   #41
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I am here addressing the stock motor issues with a stage two installed. My car was running lean for over 20k miles and this was the cause of my failure. You admit to this problem but I was unable to receive any compensation for your lack of tuning ability. When building the new motor AA was aware of my plans and I was told, "Don't worry Josh we do this for a living." This was told to me while sitting at AA in Florida. No one on this planet has posted a dyno sheet show AFR readings. I am asking to be proved wrong.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:28 PM   #42
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Can anyone post a dyno sheet with AFR reading from a Stage 2 vehicle. With hundreds sold the task should be a no brainer.

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Old 02-08-2013, 04:51 PM   #43
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Well, I can appreciate Karl's response, and good on him for doing so professionally. I will again reiterate that I stand behind AA and their products. Josh, your issue is upsetting, and especially so to those of us who are looking to buy the AA Stage 2 kit.. Hopefully this can get resolved on both ends.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:01 PM   #44
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AA's products are top notch. I am not here basing AA's products only their tuning ability for the MS45 and the damage they are causing selling the product.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:13 PM   #45
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I am happy with my kit. Mike and Karl are great guys and they have taken care of me.

Karl, I will give you a call, maybe we can setup some time between Zack and Frank while my car is on the Dyno to work out my lean problems.

Still need to do my fuel pump first, but I am training for a triathlon so the car has taken the back seat for the past months.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:33 AM   #46
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I am happy with my kit. Mike and Karl are great guys and they have taken care of me.

Karl, I will give you a call, maybe we can setup some time between Zack and Frank while my car is on the Dyno to work out my lean problems.

Still need to do my fuel pump first, but I am training for a triathlon so the car has taken the back seat for the past months.

Give us a call. We would be more than happy to resolve any issues you may be having.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:29 PM   #47
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I am here addressing the stock motor issues with a stage two installed. My car was running lean for over 20k miles and this was the cause of my failure. You admit to this problem but I was unable to receive any compensation for your lack of tuning ability. When building the new motor AA was aware of my plans and I was told, "Don't worry Josh we do this for a living." This was told to me while sitting at AA in Florida. No one on this planet has posted a dyno sheet show AFR readings. I am asking to be proved wrong.
If the car was running lean why drive it for 20k miles? Not adding fuel to the fire please don't get me wrong....but if you have gauges to tell you that (and what brand?) why would you keep driving the car?
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:25 AM   #48
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I had gauges installed and was able to monitor the AFRs. The gauge would read between 12.2 to 12.5 at WOT. This is considered lean for a boosted vehicle but was ensured by AA that I was safe. When the manufacture of a product is telling you the AFR range is safe should you believe them? When I started researching the subject more I raised the BS flag but received the same answer, you are fine. With an AFR range of 12.2 to 12.5 at WOT damage to the motor happens slow and by the time the owner notices the damage enough time has passed that AA is able to shift the blame to the owner.

If you review Karl's post he mentions having a car at AA and they were able to load a tune that did not run lean at WOT, this tuning miracle only took place 7-8 months ago. AA has been selling this kit for years and AA just now figure out how to tune the vehicle at WOT?
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:41 AM   #49
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I had gauges installed and was able to monitor the AFRs. The gauge would read between 12.2 to 12.5 at WOT. This is considered lean for a boosted vehicle but was ensured by AA that I was safe. When the manufacture of a product is telling you the AFR range is safe should you believe them? When I started researching the subject more I raised the BS flag but received the same answer, you are fine. With an AFR range of 12.2 to 12.5 at WOT damage to the motor happens slow and by the time the owner notices the damage enough time has passed that AA is able to shift the blame to the owner.

If you review Karl's post he mentions having a car at AA and they were able to load a tune that did not run lean at WOT, this tuning miracle only took place 7-8 months ago. AA has been selling this kit for years and AA just now figure out how to tune the vehicle at WOT?

What do you mean? Re-read it and see that he says 7-8months ago a car came in for level 2, they used the tune YOU had as a base and it worked on his vehicle without running lean. Not the other way around. Did you have proper sealed vacuum? If so what did your gauge read at idle? Note that most gauges arent 100%, like the AEM UEGO. Having a more complex system or AFR logs on your dyno is best. As you can see you have discrepancy between your gauge of 12.5-12.7 and on your graph it shows really lean. So if you were remote tuning and given those 2 sets of info with a massive range of difference.

That's like expecting Ray Charles to play perfect with the keys all mixed around.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:46 AM   #50
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No, no. The M54 is not difficult to tune. It's difficult to boost SOMETIMES. Look at all the great ESS kits out there. Or HPF kits on the S series. These motors aren't impossible to tune. It seems as if AA has made a bit of a hiccup in their Stage 2 production. They need to make it right, which I'm sure they'll do. I'll have an AA tune in my ZHP by spring, but I don't have a snail, haha.
HPF uses a standalone because the E46 M3 ECU and fuel system can't go as far as they need. They do not modify vanos mapping I believe. They do not tune the MSSS54.

If it is not so difficult to tune, why buy one?

Way to plug "X" amount of companies in a bash against the other company. Class act my friend.

BTW, your guess to the lean condition on danglerose was just a belt. Find another vending maching for your mechanics license for the sake of this community.

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Old 02-13-2013, 11:49 AM   #51
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With an AFR range of 12.2 to 12.5 at WOT damage to the motor happens slow and by the time the owner notices the damage enough time has passed that AA is able to shift the blame to the owner.
ESS VT440 E46 M3


Stock MS45 330ZHP


Finally MS43 TT stage 2 330CI


^^^This motor is gonna blow for sure...

Do you consider this 12.0 AFR under WOT boost lean?

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Old 02-13-2013, 12:28 PM   #52
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12 AFR on turbo car under WOT is lean for sure, sorry buddy were good hommies and all but if you think 12 AFR is not lean on a turbo car under WOT then quit your day job ahahaha, Jonny I remember Tony at dynamotorsports telling me some kit companies/tuners will tune a bit on the lean side as usually it can create a bit more power and you know Tony the guy knows his ****
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:42 PM   #53
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12 AFR on turbo car under WOT is lean for sure, sorry buddy were good hommies and all but if you think 12 AFR is not lean on a turbo car under WOT then quit your day job ahahaha, Jonny I remember Tony at dynamotorsports telling me some kit companies/tuners will tune a bit on the lean side as usually it can create a bit more power and you know Tony the guy knows his ****
What are the effects of running richer? We are talking M54, every motor has a different characteristic definining a good AFR...lookn at E9X M3

These kits have over 100s worldwide running like this without issues. Should they quit?


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Old 02-13-2013, 12:46 PM   #54
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What are the effects of running richer? We are talking M54, every motor has a different characteristic definining a good AFR...lookn at E9X M3
Burning off extra fuel...
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:00 PM   #55
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^^^This motor is gonna blow for sure...

Do you consider this 12.0 AFR under WOT boost lean?
Careful, you do not know the conditions of the AFR reading being taken. What sensor was used? What controller was used? Where was the sensor placed? What was the ambient pressure seen by the sensor? What fuel was being used? These all can affect the reading....

Secondly, that car is running just fine after years of use.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:09 PM   #56
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Careful, you do not know the conditions of the AFR reading being taken. What sensor was used? What controller was used? Where was the sensor placed? What was the ambient pressure seen by the sensor? What fuel was being used? These all can affect the reading....

Secondly, that car is running just fine after years of use.
Hey Adam,

If they use the sniffer at the tailpipe, then is the general rule 1 point richer at the exhaust ports in the headers? I forget.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:11 PM   #57
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I've noticed with supercharger Kits they tune them quite a bit leaner, look at a stock hpf stg 2 it will run 10.8-11.2 max under WOT, then look at a stg 2 hks aa lot leaner at 12ish AFRs so comparing supercharger AFRs too turbo tunes is apples to oranges, also most turbo cars will have the same 11-11.5 max afr during wot if above 11.5 i was told its too lean. I'm no expert these are just things I have noticed/been told.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:39 PM   #58
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Careful, you do not know the conditions of the AFR reading being taken. What sensor was used? What controller was used? Where was the sensor placed? What was the ambient pressure seen by the sensor? What fuel was being used? These all can affect the reading....

Secondly, that car is running just fine after years of use.

I've seen your work PEI330CI, and have followed for YEARS and know you have first experience.

Trust me I know..my whole point is that the general statement "for a supercharged car" that is too lean cannot be made because these motors are all not the same and just because you may have read that somewhere in this board. Not only that, none of the crucial information that as you stated make a difference is noted here. Personally I have never seen a dyno graph like that, its not even a graph but thats besides the point.

Between what RPM is your WOT run running 12.5-12.7? Is this reading from your gauge? What gauge is it? and like above said where is it placed? I still don't get the difference between your claim and the graph.

Tom, I know what your saying....different tuners have different preferences of their methods.

2000_328ci - really? How rich is this? What motor?.......lastly, whats your explaination for your calculations.

FWIW I have 60+ THOUSAND km on my charged M3 with ZERO engine issues tuned by the exact same tuner for Josh - he knows what hes doing. It's been driven in tracks, street, even Hurricane whatever it is was at last years bimmerfest east time for record. I will get a dyno graph soon and if I can't maybe ill just run it for the sake of my point. I do not granny this car, there's no point if I don't hear my BOV at every shift.

Since dyno graphs will prove the point as stated by some above...here is a twin screwed 330ci NOT tuned by AA, and lasting....around the time of 5+ years.


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Old 02-13-2013, 01:56 PM   #59
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Hey Adam,

If they use the sniffer at the tailpipe, then is the general rule 1 point richer at the exhaust ports in the headers? I forget.
I've heard this as well, but have never had a chance under controlled conditions to test. So to answer your question: I don't know, as I have no data to draw from.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:40 PM   #60
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I've heard the same theory as well from some well respected tuners
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