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Old 06-23-2014, 10:14 PM   #1
low flying
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AEM UGEO O2 sensor

On HPF Stage 1, does the UGEO O2 sensor just monitor AFR or does it actually open loop the AEM computer to manage AFR at lower power settings for better fuel economy?

Thanks,
Terry
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:51 PM   #2
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AEM UGEO O2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
On HPF Stage 1, does the UGEO O2 sensor just monitor AFR or does it actually open loop the AEM computer to manage AFR at lower power settings for better fuel economy?



Thanks,

Terry

The 02 sensor is processed by the Gauge itself and then the aem uses that as feedback for closed loop both in vacuum and in boost. The processing of the Gauge is better than the v1 Aem so hpf used the gauge as an integral part of its overall design. The boost Guage has no use other than visual data as the Aem uses a separate map sensor.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:04 PM   #3
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I was hoping that you would be the one to answer!! So it is a closed loop system like an OBD I car? A while back, I had the oil scavenge pump quit and I had to drive the car a short while to a safe place. I used about a quart of oil in that short time and the O2 sensor got soaked. The car is running rich and actually reads around 11.5 when I'm cruising at 80 MPH. Is this what you would expect with a soaked O2 sensor? I think I have version 2 of the AEM. Could it be a MAP sensor going bad? I had to replace one of those early on but this is different than that where I never got the "- - - -" on the meter on the over run.

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Old 06-23-2014, 11:10 PM   #4
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AEM UGEO O2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
I was hoping that you would be the one to answer!! So it is a closed loop system like an OBD I car? A while back, I had the oil scavenge pump quit and I had to drive the car a short while to a safe place. I used about a quart of oil in that short time and the O2 sensor got soaked. The car is running rich and actually reads around 11.5 when I'm cruising at 80 MPH. Is this what you would expect with a soaked O2 sensor? I think I have version 2 of the AEM. Could it be a MAP sensor going bad? I had to replace one of those early on but this is different than that where I never got the "- - - -" on the meter on the over run.



Thanks,

Terry

Ur on the right track ... Oil kills 02 sensor and throws off 02 readings making them richer than they actually r... Then the 02 feedback pulls fuel as such it's actually running lean not rich.... Could cause knock ... I would replace it ... How's ur oil consumption now since changing scavenge pump? Hpf only used V1 of AEM but had two generations in which the pinout and connectors changed as they had problems with people plugging them in wrong shorting it out... Two smaller connectors that r back indicate V1 Gen 2 where V1 Gen 1 have two large white connectors going into AEM
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:17 PM   #5
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AEM UGEO O2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
I was hoping that you would be the one to answer!! So it is a closed loop system like an OBD I car? A while back, I had the oil scavenge pump quit and I had to drive the car a short while to a safe place. I used about a quart of oil in that short time and the O2 sensor got soaked. The car is running rich and actually reads around 11.5 when I'm cruising at 80 MPH. Is this what you would expect with a soaked O2 sensor? I think I have version 2 of the AEM. Could it be a MAP sensor going bad? I had to replace one of those early on but this is different than that where I never got the "- - - -" on the meter on the over run.



Thanks,

Terry

Is ur Aem unlocked? U could send me ur logs and I'll tell u what's happening. It's possible u r getting false Accel fuel triggering... What is ur AFR at idle?
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:36 PM   #6
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The car is definitely running rich. Bad fuel economy, major black soot on tail pipes and the sensor itself had a lot of carbon on it. I do have Version 1, generation 2. Thanks for setting me straight. So an oil soak sensor should make the car run leaner. Even at track days, I haven't had a problem on street gas. Definitely not lean under load. I will replace the sensor for sure but wonder if I have another problem. Oil consumption has been basically zero with 5000 mile changes. Pump was OK but the L1 (L2?) pin hole at the AEM connector was rounded out and caused the pump to finally not work. AFR at idle is around 14 but it bounces around a lot and I do see 14 around town but it bounces around then as well.
I'm in Utah right now and driving back to Santa Rosa over the next two days. The AEM is unlocked but I'm will need to study how to send logs after I get back home.

Thanks again,
Terry
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
The car is definitely running rich. Bad fuel economy, major black soot on tail pipes and the sensor itself had a lot of carbon on it. I do have Version 1, generation 2. Thanks for setting me straight. So an oil soak sensor should make the car run leaner. Even at track days, I haven't had a problem on street gas. Definitely not lean under load. I will replace the sensor for sure but wonder if I have another problem. Oil consumption has been basically zero with 5000 mile changes. Pump was OK but the L1 (L2?) pin hole at the AEM connector was rounded out and caused the pump to finally not work. AFR at idle is around 14 but it bounces around a lot and I do see 14 around town but it bounces around then as well.

I'm in Utah right now and driving back to Santa Rosa over the next two days. The AEM is unlocked but I'm will need to study how to send logs after I get back home.



Thanks again,

Terry

Get Teamviewer setup on ur laptop and pm me ur email address... I'll set u up
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:50 AM   #8
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Off to California. Later.
Thanks
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:04 PM   #9
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I'm back in California and replaced the O2 sensor. I think all is normal but it has been so long, if ever, that I saw normal on this car. Early after self install of turbo kit, the MAP sensor went bad and caused car to be very rich. Then the scavenge pump quit and pumped oil through the sensor. Thought I had this fixed when I found a connector at OEM ECU that seemed loose. Then a year later the scavenge pump quit again. I had a lean AFR condition since day 1 and John tweaked my AEM to make it richer above 6000 RPM. But that tweak didn't change anything so I kept putting 100 octane in for the track. Then I had a local tuner see if he could tweak the AEM but he couldn't do much because the engine seemed short of fuel. When the scavenge pump quit for the second time, I wasn't able to pull over immediately so I pumped about 1 quart through the tail pipe. What a smoke screen!! After jumping the oil pump solenoid, I drove it home. Started moving wires all over the place in the engine bay. Found that I could make the scavenge pump come on and off when I moved the wires at one of the connectors that goes into the AEM computer. Pulled the connector and noticed that the female pins 1 and 2 looked rounded out and possibly not making good contact. I squeezed these female pins to make them tighter. But I was wondering if the second pin might be the one that controls the HPF second fuel pump. I rigged up a light on the dash that would tell me if the fuel pump was receiving power. Took a drive and noticed that the second pump would come on at 4PSI. Great!!! This is why I've been running lean on boost above 6000 RPM. The fuel pump hadn't ever seen action for two years!!

But back to the O2 sensor. I didn't realize that the O2 sensor is more than just monitoring AFR. "Being3" set me straight. I would have replaced it sooner if I realized that it was part of the closed loop system in the AEM. For some reason, I assumed that AEM was an open loop, probably because I "deactivated" four O2 sensors during the kit install and only put one back.

Now I have questions:

1. Is causing a rich condition one of the typical failure modes of the O2 sensor?
2. I now have 14.2 AFR at idle. Is this about right for idle? Or should I be looking for 14.7? And is the target idle AFR adjustable in the AEM?
3. The AFR gage "needle" jumps around a bit but the LED numbers are pretty stable. Is this normal when I'm in a pretty stable state on a level road? AFR is around 14.5 to 15.5 in this condition at about 70 MPH.
4. Even under light to moderate acceleration, the AFR richens quickly to the 12 to 13 range. Does that seem normal?
5. How does the AEM transition from closed loop to open loop under hard accelleration?
6. Where did HPF put a catalytic converter for customers that wanted this option.
7. Is the AEM Infinity plug and play ready for the E46 M3 and does it control both VANOS?

Thanks once again,

Terry
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:07 PM   #10
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Another question: I was looking at the O2 Feed Back target map (raw) for my installed cal file and where I expect to see numbers like 14.0, I am seeing numbers like 5.6. What gives?

Terry
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
Another question: I was looking at the O2 Feed Back target map (raw) for my installed cal file and where I expect to see numbers like 14.0, I am seeing numbers like 5.6. What gives?



Terry

U need to set the units in AEMPro so that it reads gasoline AFR. By default it's not set correctly. U only have to do this once. It's under "configure" " units"
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:55 PM   #12
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AEM UGEO O2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by low flying View Post
I'm back in California and replaced the O2 sensor. I think all is normal but it has been so long, if ever, that I saw normal on this car. Early after self install of turbo kit, the MAP sensor went bad and caused car to be very rich. Then the scavenge pump quit and pumped oil through the sensor. Thought I had this fixed when I found a connector at OEM ECU that seemed loose. Then a year later the scavenge pump quit again. I had a lean AFR condition since day 1 and John tweaked my AEM to make it richer above 6000 RPM. But that tweak didn't change anything so I kept putting 100 octane in for the track. Then I had a local tuner see if he could tweak the AEM but he couldn't do much because the engine seemed short of fuel. When the scavenge pump quit for the second time, I wasn't able to pull over immediately so I pumped about 1 quart through the tail pipe. What a smoke screen!! After jumping the oil pump solenoid, I drove it home. Started moving wires all over the place in the engine bay. Found that I could make the scavenge pump come on and off when I moved the wires at one of the connectors that goes into the AEM computer. Pulled the connector and noticed that the female pins 1 and 2 looked rounded out and possibly not making good contact. I squeezed these female pins to make them tighter. But I was wondering if the second pin might be the one that controls the HPF second fuel pump. I rigged up a light on the dash that would tell me if the fuel pump was receiving power. Took a drive and noticed that the second pump would come on at 4PSI. Great!!! This is why I've been running lean on boost above 6000 RPM. The fuel pump hadn't ever seen action for two years!!



But back to the O2 sensor. I didn't realize that the O2 sensor is more than just monitoring AFR. "Being3" set me straight. I would have replaced it sooner if I realized that it was part of the closed loop system in the AEM. For some reason, I assumed that AEM was an open loop, probably because I "deactivated" four O2 sensors during the kit install and only put one back.



Now I have questions:



1. Is causing a rich condition one of the typical failure modes of the O2 sensor?

2. I now have 14.2 AFR at idle. Is this about right for idle? Or should I be looking for 14.7? And is the target idle AFR adjustable in the AEM?

3. The AFR gage "needle" jumps around a bit but the LED numbers are pretty stable. Is this normal when I'm in a pretty stable state on a level road? AFR is around 14.5 to 15.5 in this condition at about 70 MPH.

4. Even under light to moderate acceleration, the AFR richens quickly to the 12 to 13 range. Does that seem normal?

5. How does the AEM transition from closed loop to open loop under hard accelleration?

6. Where did HPF put a catalytic converter for customers that wanted this option.

7. Is the AEM Infinity plug and play ready for the E46 M3 and does it control both VANOS?



Thanks once again,



Terry

1 it can fail rich or lean... Most often it fails lean.
2 yes this is correct 14 to 14.3
3 jumping around AFR is normal ... It's adjusting for load , deceleration , accel fule at initial throttle tip in
4 yes it's normal because of Accell fuel as stated in 3
5 Aem is setup by hpf as closed loop only. I have modified mine to be open loop in boost above 8psi
6 hpf did not do cats... U could add them If u wish but tune would need to be adjusted for AFR and wastegate duty cycle.
7 yes Aem infinity does Vanos both cams.


Do u still have ur factory 02 sensors or did u completely remove them?
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:06 PM   #13
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The factory O2 sensors are attached to the bracket on the exhaust.

Kind of wierd on the O2 feedback table. It was already set for gasoline but I tried reapplying with no change. I went to Lambda and applied and got an immediate change. Went back to gasoline and now I have figures that seem reasonable.

Thanks again for all your help!

Terry
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Old 06-28-2014, 11:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
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The factory O2 sensors are attached to the bracket on the exhaust.



Kind of wierd on the O2 feedback table. It was already set for gasoline but I tried reapplying with no change. I went to Lambda and applied and got an immediate change. Went back to gasoline and now I have figures that seem reasonable.



Thanks again for all your help!



Terry

That's normal for the units settings to do that... AEMPro is finicky like that...
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