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Old 02-11-2013, 11:21 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Give me a single shred of evidence, including LOGIC, that would even remotely work. I will spare you the statistics.....how is it going to decrease gun CRIME?
Tell me, how much cocaine is grown in the US? Heroin? How's that ban goin?

This country has a PC problem. It has a MINORITY problem. It has a brown people problem. It has a deadbeats having kids problem. It has a prison system problem, it has a corrupt libtard judge problem, and it has the pvssification of America problem....guns are as much the problem of any crime as charmin extra soft.
Well, I might first point to every other modern developed country that all have much more stringent gun laws and gun-related crime, injury and death rates far, far lower than ours. Logic: fewer guns = less opportunity to use them = less gun-related crime, injury and deaths.

As for the rest of your post, ummmm, wow, where to start!

Soooo, it seems that minorities are the plague of our society then? Perhaps the implication is that the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights era were big mistakes? Is it all minorities then, or just some (please detail, is it just "brown" people as you mention? Or black? Or simply non-white? How does one's skin color influence one's proclivity to gun-crimes?). Are we to assume then that the white majority has no gun-crime/injury/death issues? Are gun regulations to be color-based (strictest for the darkest people, most lax for the lightest and whitest)?

Then there's deadbeats having kids problem you mention. Does this imply some need to regulate or means-test before one can procreate?

Prison system problem? Yes, definitely, the prison-industrial complex has basically devolved into a revolving-door profit-driven enterprise that basically guarantees recidivism.

Not sure what corrupt "libtard" judges you're referring to as I wasn't aware that many judges at all, regardless of putative political persuasions, were on the take. Please cite examples.

"it has the pvssification of America problem" I might think of it as just the opposite, the over-machoization of America problem where too many folks, too easily offended, are far too eager to resort to physical violence to resolve their issues. Perhaps a more "pussified" America, to borrow your phrasing, would lend to less machismo-inspired resort to physical violence.

"guns are as much the problem of any crime as charmin extra soft." Perhaps I simply haven't been paying enough attention to the news lately, but I honestly don't recall any Charmin, or any other toilet paper, related crimes, injuries or deaths. I'll pay closer attention from here on though.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:02 PM   #82
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Well, I might first point to every other modern developed country that all have much more stringent gun laws and gun-related crime, injury and death rates far, far lower than ours. Logic: fewer guns = less opportunity to use them = less gun-related crime, injury and deaths.

As for the rest of your post, ummmm, wow, where to start!

Soooo, it seems that minorities are the plague of our society then? Perhaps the implication is that the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights era were big mistakes? Is it all minorities then, or just some (please detail, is it just "brown" people as you mention? Or black? Or simply non-white? How does one's skin color influence one's proclivity to gun-crimes?). Are we to assume then that the white majority has no gun-crime/injury/death issues? Are gun regulations to be color-based (strictest for the darkest people, most lax for the lightest and whitest)?

Then there's deadbeats having kids problem you mention. Does this imply some need to regulate or means-test before one can procreate?

Prison system problem? Yes, definitely, the prison-industrial complex has basically devolved into a revolving-door profit-driven enterprise that basically guarantees recidivism.

Not sure what corrupt "libtard" judges you're referring to as I wasn't aware that many judges at all, regardless of putative political persuasions, were on the take. Please cite examples.

"it has the pvssification of America problem" I might think of it as just the opposite, the over-machoization of America problem where too many folks, too easily offended, are far too eager to resort to physical violence to resolve their issues. Perhaps a more "pussified" America, to borrow your phrasing, would lend to less machismo-inspired resort to physical violence.

"guns are as much the problem of any crime as charmin extra soft." Perhaps I simply haven't been paying enough attention to the news lately, but I honestly don't recall any Charmin, or any other toilet paper, related crimes, injuries or deaths. I'll pay closer attention from here on though.
1) There is no modern developed country on the planet that can compare with the US. There are no other countries with 300+ million people, illegal immigration on our scale, etc etc etc. Thats a weak, stupid, and logicLESS Piers Morgan comparison.

2) The brown people....facts are facts. The most violent gangs are either black or latino. 80% of the US prison population is either black or latino. All the high crime areas in the US are mostly in cities with a large minority (black/latino) population. As for your gun regulation comment....do a little reading, thats EXACTLY how it used to be. The DEMOCRATS wanted to keep guns out of the hands of blacks, and thus, created gun control. MLK was denied a gun permit after his house got firebombed. It was the NRA that pushed for equality. Having said that, I am not saving that most minorities are criminals, but minorities do have a lot of problems that lead to violence, and those problems need to be dealt with. Unfortunately, the government "deals" with these problems by needlessly injecting money into them, instead of actually solving the problem.

Your "macho" comments....normal law abiding citizens have consequences to face with the use (or even showing) of their firearms. As a result, very few gun CRIMES are actually committed by normal, law abiding citizens. They are mostly committed by felons and repeat offenders, so the macho comment makes no sense.

Libtard judge example? Absolutely.....

1) http://conservativebyte.com/2012/07/...liberal-judge/

2) http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/health...surgery-inmate

We can play this song and dance all day.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:43 PM   #83
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2) The brown people....facts are facts. The most violent gangs are either black or latino. 80% of the US prison population is either black or latino. All the high crime areas in the US are mostly in cities with a large minority (black/latino) population. As for your gun regulation comment....do a little reading, thats EXACTLY how it used to be. The DEMOCRATS wanted to keep guns out of the hands of blacks, and thus, created gun control. MLK was denied a gun permit after his house got firebombed. It was the NRA that pushed for equality. Having said that, I am not saving that most minorities are criminals, but minorities do have a lot of problems that lead to violence, and those problems need to be dealt with. Unfortunately, the government "deals" with these problems by needlessly injecting money into them, instead of actually solving the problem.
Every one of those black or Latino gangs thrives on illicit drug money. You legalize marijuana and cocaine, and you eliminate 3/4 of their revenue.

What you are doing is conflating the visible symptoms (gang violence) with the underlying cause (drug prohibition). Brown and black people aren't the problem. The prohibition of recreational drugs is the problem.

White guys made up 80+% of organized crime during Prohibition. Are you going to tell me we had a white person problem back then?

Your statements are loaded with racial prejudice and until you change the way you address the issue, you're not going to get your other statements (which are fine) across.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:55 PM   #84
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Every one of those black or Latino gangs thrives on illicit drug money. You legalize marijuana and cocaine, and you eliminate 3/4 of their revenue.

What you are doing is conflating the visible symptoms (gang violence) with the underlying cause (drug prohibition). Brown and black people aren't the problem. The prohibition of recreational drugs is the problem.

White guys made up 80+% of organized crime during Prohibition. Are you going to tell me we had a white person problem back then?

Your statements are loaded with racial prejudice and until you change the way you address the issue, you're not going to get your other statements (which are fine) across.
Racial prejudice is simply a term for those that are politically correct. Organized crime is not even remotely the same as gangs today. I agree about the drugs, they do fuel a lot of the gang violence, but again, you and I both know how much money drugs can bring us, but yet, we aren't dealers. Why not? What is different with them that causes them to become drug dealers? Hate to bring it up, but plenty of blacks agree with my train of thought. Bill Cosby was one of the vocal ones. If you don't see the underlying problem is with various minorities, then the conversation is moot.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:00 PM   #85
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Racial prejudice is simply a term for those that are politically correct.
Everybody bitches and moans about being PC, but yours is a case where not only are you not being PC, you have pretty awful views that would make you very unlikable across a vast swath of society if those views were publicly known.

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Organized crime is not even remotely the same as gangs today. I agree about the drugs, they do fuel a lot of the gang violence, but again, you and I both know how much money drugs can bring us, but yet, we aren't dealers. Why not? What is different with them that causes them to become drug dealers? Hate to bring it up, but plenty of blacks agree with my train of thought. Bill Cosby was one of the vocal ones. If you don't see the underlying problem is with various minorities, then the conversation is moot.
Because we were born in fortunate circumstances and have plenty of legal alternatives to make our living.

Contrary to popular belief, the drug trade isn't lucrative at all for the vast majority of individuals engaged in it. The people at the top make a lot of money, but the employees (low level foot soldiers) scrape by making absolute dogshit in pay.

The underlying problem isn't minorities. Most people who are black or Latino aren't active criminals or gangsters. But it only takes 5% of a group to give everybody else a bad name (which has obviously affected your judgment of 2 large demographics). The underlying problem is a minority within a minority that has decided it wants to try its luck at the drug trade and in the process, destroys property values by introducing violent crime into neighborhoods that would otherwise be much better off.

Once decent neighborhoods turn to ****, which affects the neighborhoods nearby. The next thing you know, the upper middle class households within the neighborhood flee and cloister themselves into exclusively upper middle class communities (white flight) and then everybody else is left to fend for themselves.

You're speaking from a position that is shielded in privilege and shrouded in stupidity. It's people like you that give conservatives a bad name.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:29 PM   #86
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Everybody bitches and moans about being PC, but yours is a case where not only are you not being PC, you have pretty awful views that would make you very unlikable across a vast swath of society if those views were publicly known.


Because we were born in fortunate circumstances and have plenty of legal alternatives to make our living.

Contrary to popular belief, the drug trade isn't lucrative at all for the vast majority of individuals engaged in it. The people at the top make a lot of money, but the employees (low level foot soldiers) scrape by making absolute dogshit in pay.

The underlying problem isn't minorities. Most people who are black or Latino aren't active criminals or gangsters. But it only takes 5% of a group to give everybody else a bad name (which has obviously affected your judgment of 2 large demographics). The underlying problem is a minority within a minority that has decided it wants to try its luck at the drug trade and in the process, destroys property values by introducing violent crime into neighborhoods that would otherwise be much better off.

Once decent neighborhoods turn to ****, which affects the neighborhoods nearby. The next thing you know, the upper middle class households within the neighborhood flee and cloister themselves into exclusively upper middle class communities (white flight) and then everybody else is left to fend for themselves.

You're speaking from a position that is shielded in privilege and shrouded in stupidity. It's people like you that give conservatives a bad name.
You don't know my situation. I did not grow up privileged. In fact, I grew up with FAR less than all those you are trying to poorly defend. Your post is nothing more than a politically correct song and dance. You basically said the same thing I said, but without the balls to call a pot black. I stated numerous times that I don't think ALL blacks and latinos are criminals or lazy. I never said anything of the sort. However, no one is acknowledging that the PROBLEM is in the black communities WITH BLACKS and in the latino communities with LATINOS. I never said it was the majority of them did I?

Why does Chicago has a problem with gun violence? Who perpetuates the violence and why?
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:18 PM   #87
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You don't know my situation. I did not grow up privileged. In fact, I grew up with FAR less than all those you are trying to poorly defend.
Well, you grew up white. That's a tremendous privilege in the US.

Quote:
Your post is nothing more than a politically correct song and dance. You basically said the same thing I said, but without the balls to call a pot black. I stated numerous times that I don't think ALL blacks and latinos are criminals or lazy. I never said anything of the sort. However, no one is acknowledging that the PROBLEM is in the black communities WITH BLACKS and in the latino communities with LATINOS. I never said it was the majority of them did I?
You said:

Quote:
It has a MINORITY problem. It has a brown people problem.


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Why does Chicago has a problem with gun violence? Who perpetuates the violence and why?
Chicago has a problem with gun violence due to a confluence of factors that primarily revolve around drug prohibition, lax law enforcement (the city is far too broke to hire more beat officers under the current collective bargaining scheme for public workers), a less generous welfare system (which encourages more of its numerous disadvantaged youths, predominantly black, to go into the drug trade), and extraordinary socioeconomic stratification that shunted poor people into their own district (or ward, in Chicago's case) of rampant poverty.

There would be greater demand for public safety from Chicago's denizens if it weren't for the fact that violent crime is overwhelmingly concentrated in the poorest areas of Chicago and only occasionally spill over to the richer parts of town.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:55 PM   #88
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Rapier growing up white is a tremendous privilege? How so? I came from a not so great background. My life was no different than someone else with a different skin color. My perseverance and determination put my past behind me. I did not cry victim growing up in a single mother home without the bastard alcoholic father that abandoned me. I paid for most of my schooling and helped my mother out financially when she needed it. So tell me where was the advantage of being white in my situation? Your statement is very ignorant.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:08 PM   #89
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Why does Chicago has a problem with gun violence? Who perpetuates the violence and why?
When would you like to talk about. Chicago had a worse problem with gun violence and gang violence during prohibition, proportional to its population, than it has today. And the vast majority of those people were....wait for it....caucasian.

And lets not forget, that the first gun control regulations, the restrictions on fully auto weapons and silencers, came about to keep guns out of the hands organized crime gangs that were predominantly made up of caucasians. So stop all this "gun control was invented to keep the black man down" crapola. It seems to fit your racial profiling, but, coming from you, I am not surprised. Your true colors, just like pond scum, always rise top to be seen eventually.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:21 PM   #90
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Rapier growing up white is a tremendous privilege? How so? I came from a not so great background. My life was no different than someone else with a different skin color. My perseverance and determination put my past behind me. I did not cry victim growing up in a single mother home without the bastard alcoholic father that abandoned me. I paid for most of my schooling and helped my mother out financially when she needed it. So tell me where was the advantage of being white in my situation? Your statement is very ignorant.
Having come from similar "not so great background" the statement is not true in all cases. It is a gross over-simplification, with a small grain of truth. It is not perhaps easier. But, one could argue there are fewer social/political hurdles to overcome. With more anti-discrimination laws and technology for better oversight, it is getting harder and harder for employers/universities/etc to discriminate. It is also a function of age. Those that grew up in segregated eras were more likely to have, hold, and keep to segregationist principles. As they have retired or died off the problem has lessened as well. The argument of "you grew up white, that is an advantage in and of itself" is getting weaker and weaker. Although it has not totally abated, yet.

They better and more accurate argument is "the more wealthy you grew up the greater advantage you have", is becoming truer and truer. And one could argue it is replacing the "you grew up white" argument.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:31 PM   #91
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Having come from similar "not so great background" the statement is not true in all cases. It is a gross over-simplification, with a small grain of truth. It is not perhaps easier. But, one could argue there are fewer social/political hurdles to overcome. With more anti-discrimination laws and technology for better oversight, it is getting harder and harder for employers/universities/etc to discriminate. It is also a function of age. Those that grew up in segregated eras were more likely to have, hold, and keep to segregationist principles. As they have retired or died off the problem has lessened as well. The argument of "you grew up white, that is an advantage in and of itself" is getting weaker and weaker. Although it has not totally abated, yet.

They better and more accurate argument is "the more wealthy you grew up the greater advantage you have", is becoming truer and truer. And one could argue it is replacing the "you grew up white" argument.
Agreed.

However, unlike my very liberal mother I turned out unbiased and logical. :p
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