E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 02-08-2013, 04:52 AM   #1
glhx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 1,365
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330ci
I need to know Throttle position at idle for a 2002 330ci

Mine sits at 10%

others say it should be 0%.
glhx is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 02-08-2013, 05:13 AM   #2
Hovs13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 113
My Ride: E46 325ci
here's a screenshot at idle...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DME live scan after drive from utsc.png
Views:	146
Size:	104.7 KB
ID:	489867  
Hovs13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 08:22 AM   #3
HallisterJ1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 326
My Ride: 2001 325i, 2003 M3
Pretty sure it's suppose to sit at 0.0%.
__________________
HallisterJ1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 08:33 AM   #4
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 11,608
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
Be careful before you get too excited about making a move on this issue.

I have not had a chance to check my 330, it is a 2006, so it may be different, however, my GMC trunk and my VW both show around 10% at idle.

You may also need to monitor the position with the key on, engine off and compare to engine running as well.

Also the 330 vary quite a bit more than the 325 does over the years.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 10:25 AM   #5
shanneba
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,099
My Ride: 2003 330Ci
My 02/2003 (MS43 DME version) 330Ci also sits at 0.1 degree throttle angle at idle.
With the Key on and engine off and cold, my throttle position is a little over 6 degrees.

If your software will monitor the Idle Control Valve and Idle Speed integrator you can compare to my graph below.
It looks like the idle speed is controlled more by the Idle Speed Control Valve than the actual throttle. Maybe your ICV is stuck and your car is using the throttle to control the speed or maybe the software is not showing the correct throttle degrees?

Total time shown of the graph is just under 7 minutes.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BMW330CiThrottleAngleatIdle.jpg
Views:	338
Size:	93.1 KB
ID:	489870  
__________________
Join BMWCCA
Discounts on new and CPO cars.
Most Dealers offer a parts discount, BMP Design 10% off

Last edited by shanneba; 02-08-2013 at 10:31 AM.
shanneba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 10:55 AM   #6
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 11,608
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
I was going to comment on the drive by wire and the key on, engine off vs engine running. There may a difference in the throttle angle between the 2 conditions?

Also some tools pick up funny readings, like my UltraGauge has some MAF2 reading that is not the raw MAF reading, somehow is it corrected or adjusted. I glanced over it, however, did not spend much time on it.

Also some engines require throttle alignment or reset.

Can't recall on the BMW as I do not think I have had to deal with this if it is an issue.

One thing on the BMW's that often get overlooked very easily is the air distribution manifold. This is the smaller, flat plastic manifold that sit on top of the intake manifold. This is the path the ICV actually feeds air to the intake ports with. It is also called a turbulence manifold.

As I recall the CCV connects to this air distribution manifold and it can likely get easily clogged with oil vapor and deposits.

Unfortunately I do not have a baseline weight on the air distribution manifold, but I would actually weigh it to determine how much crap is built up inside this manifold. It actually should be something that is replaced when the CCV is replaced in my opinion.

Anyway, maybe the air distribution manifold bring restricted may be part of the issue? Maybe not?

Also make sure the throttle body is actually closing down almost completely. This should be easy to inspect, pull off upper intake boot and look down the lower intake boot. Make sure the lower intake boot flap is not caught in side the throttle body as well.

I think the OP also had an idle speed issue as well? Maybe the air distribution manifold should be replaced along with the 6 O-rings?

Here is some more info on the air distribution manifold -

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=901338

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=487563
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 02-08-2013 at 11:05 AM.
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 03:45 PM   #7
glhx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 1,365
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330ci
Found something out.......I didn't know pa soft had that much live data.

Throttle angle live shows 0 according to pa soft...torque pro shows 10%
glhx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:28 PM   #8
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 11,608
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
This is what I was concerned about at times. You really need to use the same tool when you pull data from a like car to make sure you info is accurate.

The info is pulled from the OBD stream, so things like MAF, throttle angle and temp is actually tanken from the OBD stream, not directly from the sensor so not sure why you may have differing data?? Maybe there is an error in rounding or some basic programming issue between Torque & BMW Scanner?
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 05:20 PM   #9
glhx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 1,365
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330ci
i need another software set up that shows fuel trim....but cant get one right now anyway.....i just replaced the thermostat and bought 2 o2 sensors....the sap pump and its relay....and new MAf sensor. My maintenance budget is shot
glhx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 05:33 PM   #10
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 11,608
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
Can't recall if this software provides fuel trims, but the price is right.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...light=software
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 05:50 PM   #11
glhx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 1,365
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330ci
take a look at this screen shot....anything look out of the ordianary
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2013-02-08 14.45.49.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	198.7 KB
ID:	489929  
glhx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 03:41 PM   #12
glhx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 1,365
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330ci
throttle position is confirmed at 0%

my torque pro app is showing 10%
my pa soft is showing 0%

idle control valve controls the engine exclusively at idle and low rpm engine load.

it then transfers to the throttle body after the pedal angle is enough to put more load on the engine
glhx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 04:46 PM   #13
shanneba
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,099
My Ride: 2003 330Ci
The only thing that seems a little off is the Idle Speed Integrator at 96% , was your A/C compressor running at the time of the screen shot?
My graph was done with the Heat / A/C unit turned off.
__________________
Join BMWCCA
Discounts on new and CPO cars.
Most Dealers offer a parts discount, BMP Design 10% off
shanneba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 05:26 PM   #14
glhx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 1,365
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330ci
The heat might have been on...the a/c wasnt. Can you tell me what the idle speed integrator is and what the values of 96% mean

And what is the one next it....the idle speed percentage

Last edited by glhx; 02-09-2013 at 05:35 PM.
glhx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 06:23 PM   #15
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 11,608
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
I just checked my 2006 330cic E46.

BMW Scanner 1.4.0 does not provide real time data on that car for some reason. The block is grayed out, not an option, unless there is something I am doing wrong.

Used Torque and Launch CReaderVI on the car.

At idle in part or in gear both Torque and CReaderVI show 10.6.
Interesting that when I free rev the engine while in park the 10.6 value did not change.

Put car in gear no change, turned AC on, no change.

Did power brake the car a bit and I was finally able to get the Throttle Position to increase a bit, like to 16 degrees or something like that.

I did not get a chance to drive the car, not enough time.

Not sure if there is a PID issue and how/what the tools read??

You have to realize there is the throttle pedal position, throttle valve angle and ICV valve all can play into this and not 100% sure what tool is looking at what PID??

Just another point of data.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:10 PM   #16
glhx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 1,365
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330ci
When I used bmw scammer 1.4.0 I was able to get live data. I scanned the car.....clicked on dme.....went to live data......and then in the live data screen over on the right....should be something like data group plus. That gave me that screen shot. Data group minus shows what's turned on and what's not...like o2 heaters

I did the same thing....free rev and it did the same for me that it did for you...no movement. I'm not sure what its looking at either. It drove me nuts....I can confirm now that it is the software. 1.4.0 live data showed closed at 0%.

Dslboomer told me when he looked at it. That the icv controls all the idle and low load rpm functions. And his didn't move until he was able to get out of the icv and not the throttle body.

He also said the maf is bad or under reporting 15% compared to his....or the icv is sticking. Probably the maf. Icv was cleaned.....when I put on the maf in a couple of days ill know better. O2 sensors didn't do anything. To help....but I didn't figure they would.....now I know they have been replaced.

Last edited by glhx; 02-09-2013 at 07:17 PM.
glhx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 07:18 PM   #17
glhx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 1,365
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330ci
He also said post cats are acting up.....bouncing......either I messed up the cat in all this or those sensors are bad. I hope it's just the sensors
glhx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use