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Old 02-13-2013, 03:17 AM   #21
NeverHome
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Can you explain why neither of them has gone as fast with the Syvecs as they had with the ProEFI?
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Originally Posted by J.Schmidt View Post
about 3 tenths slower....which is ALOT at those times.
Can i ask where this Information came from? As its all BS and cant understand why Jason and 2 of his dealers are creating so much false info to try and make the Proefi brand look better, when its making it look worse.

The world Professional in the brand name should mean something.

Switzer only ever ran in the 9's with the ProEFI fitted and Now in the 8's with the Syvecs.

AMS ran the record pass with the ProEFI which was just piggybacked to get boost of the line because the Syvecs wasn't ready at the time and then Switched straight after to Syvecs. To this date and i rang AMS to comfirm the Omega has not hit the 1/4mile since only Texas where it on a top speed run it, pushed a gasket.

I have sold both Proefi and Syvecs units, i can assure you it was not down to money why they all the GTR Proefi customers are changing as the trade discount on the Proefi is more favoured for business owners... but the lack of support and firmware updates dont make up for the saving.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:17 AM   #22
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I really don't think how fast a car has gone with a particular ECU is relevant. If this was the final factor, why are there so many carb cars with a multipoint distributers going even faster than the quoted Syvecs and ProEFI cars?

My point is that "a" customer will request certain features. If an ECU can do what the customer wants, than that's all that counts. I think it's unprofessional to offer a feature for sale before it's proven by a development process, especially as a key selling point to a product. (Either by the manufacturer, or reseller) In my own projects, both professional or hobby, a product can either deliver the requested feature right now, or it doesn't qualify for my selection process.

I care about what a product can do for me under my operating parameters, not what it has done for other people under theirs.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:23 AM   #23
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I really don't think how fast a car has gone with a particular ECU is relevant. If this was the final factor, why are there so many carb cars with a multipoint distributers going even faster than the quoted Syvecs and ProEFI cars?

My point is that "a" customer will request certain features. If an ECU can do what the customer wants, than that's all that counts. I think it's unprofessional to offer a feature for sale before it's proven by a development process, especially as a key selling point to a product. (Either by the manufacturer, or reseller) In my own projects, both professional or hobby, a product can either deliver the requested feature right now, or it doesn't qualify for my selection process.

I care about what a product can do for me under my operating parameters, not what it has done for other people under theirs.
great!
so what is your choice from EMS?
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:41 AM   #24
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great!
so what is your choice from EMS?
I wish it was that simple...

Currently I'm waiting for a range of products from various manufacturers to be released from the development process. (Some of these products have been in development since 2009) So currently my choice is to wait, at least for a couple more months.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:52 AM   #25
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I wish it was that simple...

Currently I'm waiting for a range of products from various manufacturers to be released from the development process. (Some of these products have been in development since 2009) So currently my choice is to wait, at least for a couple more months.
Hmm, what do you need that doesn't exist in ProEFI/Syvecs/Vipec/AMS/MS3 extra?
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:53 AM   #26
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Hmm, what do you need that doesn't exist in ProEFI/Syvecs/Vipec/AMS/MS3 extra?
  • User configurable CAN integration
  • User configurable Color OLED displays
  • User configurable maths channels
  • User configurable I/Os (User selects function, control strategy, and safety features)
  • On-board data logging with up to 1000hz resolution. (Selectable by channel)
  • High current power management (Current control, logging, and fault management)

And in general, more processing power inside the ECU.

The ProEFI for example has a MPC565 chip capable of up to 150 MIPS, the Infinity-10 is at 400 MIPS. At the far end of the spectrum is the new TAG Mclaren SECU with 4,000 MIPS. It just depends on what sort of ideas you want to support in a control strategy, and how precise you want the timing. If you have a lot of these ideas, it's pretty easy to use up available resources. There is a reason why Motec limits the number of 3D control strategies on Aux outputs in their current line of ECUs and dashes....
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:08 AM   #27
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  • User configurable CAN integration
  • User configurable Color OLED displays
  • User configurable maths channels
  • User configurable I/Os (User selects function, control strategy, and safety features)
  • On-board data logging with up to 1000hz resolution. (Selectable by channel)
  • High current power management (Current control, logging, and fault management)

And in general, more processing power inside the ECU.

The ProEFI for example has a MPC565 chip capable of up to 150 MIPS, the Infinity-10 is at 400 MIPS. At the far end of the spectrum is the new TAG Mclaren SECU with 4,000 MIPS. It just depends on what sort of ideas you want to support in a control strategy, and how precise you want the timing. If you have a lot of these ideas, it's pretty easy to use up available resources. There is a reason why Motec limits the number of 3D control strategies on Aux outputs in their current line of ECUs and dashes....
Why do you need on-board data logging with up to 1000hz resolution?
MS3 extra has dualcore 50 Mhz processor, builtin datalogging to internal SD card up to 8 Gb, supports user configurable CAN integration, check this:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/can.html

Last edited by e60fan; 02-13-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:49 AM   #28
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Adam your knowledge sharing is greatly appreciated in threads like this and keeping the facts apart from fiction. Thanks
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:18 AM   #29
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Can i ask where this Information came from? As its all BS and cant understand why Jason and 2 of his dealers are creating so much false info to try and make the Proefi brand look better, when its making it look worse.

The world Professional in the brand name should mean something.

Switzer only ever ran in the 9's with the ProEFI fitted and Now in the 8's with the Syvecs.

AMS ran the record pass with the ProEFI which was just piggybacked to get boost of the line because the Syvecs wasn't ready at the time and then Switched straight after to Syvecs. To this date and i rang AMS to comfirm the Omega has not hit the 1/4mile since only Texas where it on a top speed run it, pushed a gasket.

I have sold both Proefi and Syvecs units, i can assure you it was not down to money why they all the GTR Proefi customers are changing as the trade discount on the Proefi is more favoured for business owners... but the lack of support and firmware updates dont make up for the saving.
GTR Life...are you saying that Syvecs does have the record as they state on their website? What is untruthful?

You are saying the ProEFI is was only controlling boost?

Last edited by J.Schmidt; 02-13-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:16 AM   #30
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  • User configurable CAN integration - Syvecs, Pectel and Motec are only able to do this at present

  • User configurable Color OLED displays - Pectel and Syvecs in a few monthes will have this available. Gems do have something available at present

  • User configurable maths channels - Syvecs, Pectel and Motec only offer this. Unsure on AEM

  • User configurable I/Os (User selects function, control strategy, and safety features) - Syvecs, Pectel and Motec only offer this. Unsure on AEM

  • On-board data logging with up to 1000hz resolution. (Selectable by channel) Syvecs and Pectel can only do this. Unsure on AEM
  • High current power management (Current control, logging, and fault management) - Motec, Syvecs and Pectel offer this.


And in general, more processing power inside the ECU.

There is a reason why Motec limits the number of 3D control strategies on Aux outputs in their current line of ECUs and dashes.... - Indeed! So do other manufactures also
See Above
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:25 AM   #31
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GTR Life...are you saying that Syvecs does have the record as they state on their website? What is untruthful?

You are saying the ProEFI is was only controlling boost?
Can you provide a link to the GTR Life thread....

http://www.syvecs.co.uk/products/sgtr/

Currently used in all of world recording breaking GTRs around the world competing in 1/4m, Mile event and rally stages

Its clever marketing and nothing stated is untruthful, as they dont actually state it was done using their equipment but state the world record breaking gtrs now run the Syvecs. Which is true.

I dont know what was done via the proefi but Chris at AMS stated it was a crude way to get what they needed done as the stock ecu had to stay in place to control all the DBW etc... Never the less it did the job
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:28 AM   #32
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Why do you need on-board data logging with up to 1000hz resolution?
MS3 extra has dualcore 50 Mhz processor, builtin datalogging to internal SD card up to 8 Gb, supports user configurable CAN integration, check this:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/can.html
I appreciate the suggestion, but I think you may not be aware of the scope of my project. Currently, my I/O list has 64 inputs and 47 outputs, and this does not include the transmission control functions. The list will probably also grow as the project evolves.

Secondly, I need to be able to communicate data with engineers in a software format that they can read and utilize in their existing software applications. I don't think I would be taken very seriously if I wasn't using one of the recognized motorsport electronics platforms to develop my ideas.

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Adam your knowledge sharing is greatly appreciated in threads like this and keeping the facts apart from fiction. Thanks
Glad you appreciate it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:55 PM   #33
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...
Who are you? Someone who joined the forum about a week ago, started doing 'filler posts' in the OT/General threads about tire shine and what not and is now suddenly the expert on the ProEFI ECU? Oh and is oh so familiar with the ongoing GTR Life thread (aka the **** storm).

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Old 02-13-2013, 02:35 PM   #34
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Who are you? Someone who joined the forum about a week ago, started doing 'filler posts' in the OT/General threads about tire shine and what not and is now suddenly the expert on the ProEFI ECU? Oh and is oh so familiar with the ongoing GTR Life thread (aka the **** storm).

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Old 02-13-2013, 03:39 PM   #35
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Who are you? Someone who joined the forum about a week ago, started doing 'filler posts' in the OT/General threads about tire shine and what not and is now suddenly the expert on the ProEFI ECU? Oh and is oh so familiar with the ongoing GTR Life thread (aka the **** storm).

He's clearly an expert...Trollolol
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:36 PM   #36
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To make this easier to read, I've highlighted your comments in green below.

My comments on these are in blue.


[QUOTE=NeverHome;15158119]

User configurable CAN integration - Syvecs, Pectel and Motec are only able to do this at present

To clarify, I'm talking about bi-directional CAN communication where the user can configure the CAN input and output without templates from the manufacturer. Also, I'm talking about being able to communicate with a mix of products not made by the ECU manufacturer. All of the ECU products currently on the market have limitations in both configuration, and total channel count available. Syvecs for example has a great setup menu for CAN outputs, but addresses are not configurable by the user, and is limited to 60 channels. Pectel is a similar story, and Motec has great output configuration but input configuration is limited on everything except for the ACL product line. (Huge $$) Syvecs is promising new firmware that expands on CAN integration, while the Motec M1 ECU series is promising unrivalled flexibility. What hasn't been mentioned is the AEM Infinity which has a platform that will allow a qualified user to write whatever code they want. Pretty powerful stuff....

User configurable Color OLED displays - Pectel and Syvecs in a few monthes will have this available. Gems do have something available at present


The Pectel display is kind of vaporware....it will work on the 2013 Porsche GT3 Cup car...but doesn't have a GUI available the way that Bosch does with their DDU-7, or the GEMS CD25 does for example. I've been talking to Ryan at Syvecs about new products for 2013, and a display never came up. That's not to say there isn't anything coming, just that I wasn't informed of it.

The colour display that I'm most interested in is from Motec. They have just shown the full size model at the Autosport show in the UK, with availability being promised later in the spring. The GUI to customize it though is a ways off...with R&D saying it may be available by the summer.


User configurable maths channels - Syvecs, Pectel and Motec only offer this. Unsure on AEM

Motec offers on-board maths channels on their existing ECU line up, but the M1 series I expect to take this to a whole new level. AEM's Infinity already has a very comprehensive setup menu available, but I've yet to get a copy of the configuration software that I can use it with. Again, March release is quoted.

Pectel and Syvecs don't have on-board maths channels available....in fact Pectel doesn't have any user configurable logic functions at all...unless you are supported directly by a motorsport engineer.


User configurable I/Os (User selects function, control strategy, and safety features) - Syvecs, Pectel and Motec only offer this. Unsure on AEM

Everyone including Motec is currently offering just templates for I/O. Some are more flexible offering the ability to name input and output channels, where others have pre-named channels with fixed control logic.

What I'm talking about is complete user freedom. As an example, imagine having a 6 wheel drive vehicle where you wanted traction control for driven wheels, and all 6 wheels were driven independently. Well with the new software coming from Motec for the M1 Series, and AEM for the Infinity, a user could write that control logic. The way it is right now from everyone else is that the control strategies are written by the software engineers, with a little bit of user configurability for variables. I'm talking about being able to write the code for a function, using an easily understandable GUI.


On-board data logging with up to 1000hz resolution. (Selectable by channel) Syvecs and Pectel can only do this. Unsure on AEM

Yes for Pectel and Syvecs...but there is an 8,000 sample per second limit on throughput for the ECU. Motec's ACL products can log at up to 5,000 Hz...but that's a whole other level of expensive. And really...what the heck do you need that kind of resolution for? Usually the high end stuff is being oversampled to reduce noise, then down-converted (averaged) to get a clean data point.

The issue I have with most ECU data logging offered is that it's either a fixed rate for all channels, or selectable for all channels as a batch. Admittedly the products I've mentioned above have the ability to chose the channels you want to log, and at what sample rate. But...further to that I would like to see filtering available, as well as oversampling. If you can write the input logic yourself...you'd be able to create the data channel you needed right on the ECU. (As opposed to creating the data channel after a session in a professional data analysis program)


High current power management (Current control, logging, and fault management) - Motec, Syvecs and Pectel offer this.


And in general, more processing power inside the ECU.

There is a reason why Motec limits the number of 3D control strategies on Aux outputs in their current line of ECUs and dashes.... - Indeed! So do other manufactures also

Last edited by PEI330Ci; 02-13-2013 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Auto-save 1360798890
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:50 PM   #37
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High current power management (Current control, logging, and fault management) - Motec, Syvecs and Pectel offer this.
Sorry, missed to comment on this.

Solid state power management is facing a revolution with OBR's PCM2. The original PCM was the benchmark previously, but this new product is a statement piece. So much so...that Bosch Motorsport has licenced it from OBR, and re-branded it the Powerbox-180 so that it can be used in the Audi LMP program.

This is the level of power control that I want to see available as an option package for an moderately priced ECU line. Currently, Motec and LifeRacing/Syvecs are the only options available for a combined system where there is bi-directional CAN communication possible. Well....unless you want to step into the McLaren stuff, or Pi/Pectel stuff...which requires engineering support from the manufacturer to set it up. The Pi/Pectel Hyllus stuff for example was only available as part of $50k powertrain control packages. The Bosch Motorsports stuff is kind of the same type of deal....anyone that's worked with the Modas software will understand what I'm talking about. You need help.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:12 PM   #38
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Keep it up, good stuff!
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:13 PM   #39
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And 2 corrections on the Syvecs CAN setup:

The Address is not configurable, but the frame identifier is.

A total of 80 CAN outputs are available, not 60.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:11 PM   #40
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Who are you? Someone who joined the forum about a week ago, started doing 'filler posts' in the OT/General threads about tire shine and what not and is now suddenly the expert on the ProEFI ECU? Oh and is oh so familiar with the ongoing GTR Life thread (aka the **** storm).

I'm glad you took such interest in my background! Thanks for the warm welcome!

If being able to read makes me an expert, then I guess I am.
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