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Old 03-09-2013, 04:43 PM   #61
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Or..you could have started with a B25/B25 and avoided the harmonic issues. Just saying.

By the way, I say we all give up our BMWs and get Nissans. The VQ head flows more than the S54....crazy potential there!!
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:44 PM   #62
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By the way, I say we all give up our BMWs and get Nissans. The VQ head flows more than the S54....crazy potential there!!
No. Absolutely not.

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Old 03-09-2013, 04:52 PM   #63
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I won't lie, I'm NOT a huge BMW fan. Owning one has jaded me and made me realize that didn't have the "magic" engineering edge I once believed it to have. They are great cars, and can be fairly inexpensive to operate, but beyond that, there are better options for people who want to flog these cars.

Seriously, weak subframs (my Z3 included) weak cooling systems, harmonic issues, weak transmissions (323/325) No LSD for non M3 models (Z3 has one...) Etc. There is just so much that has to be done to make these cars competitive compared to major options out there, and even then, you rarely see a top BMW finisher. It's disheartening to say the least.


Oh and VQ power -
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:06 PM   #64
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I won't lie, I'm NOT a huge BMW fan. Owning one has jaded me and made me realize that didn't have the "magic" engineering edge I once believed it to have. They are great cars, and can be fairly inexpensive to operate, but beyond that, there are better options for people who want to flog these cars.

Seriously, weak subframs (my Z3 included) weak cooling systems, harmonic issues, weak transmissions (323/325) No LSD for non M3 models (Z3 has one...) Etc. There is just so much that has to be done to make these cars competitive compared to major options out there, and even then, you rarely see a top BMW finisher. It's disheartening to say the least.


Oh and VQ power -
I don't exactly disagree but championing Nissan is absurd. They have serious build quality issues as well. The interiors and styling are terrible most of the time. The cars are crude at best.

Power is not everything. No thank you.

And the S54 can probably run up against the Nissan motors for pure power. Some are nearing or slightly above 400hp N/A, without opening the engine. Out of 3.2 liters. Unlike Nissan, BMW doesn't see boring the motor out as the solution to every power problem

IIRC the VQ has it's fair share of issues as well. One of them has to do with burning so much oil that the motor fails entirely?

But we should stop derailing the thread.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:51 PM   #65
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I don't exactly disagree but championing Nissan is absurd. They have serious build quality issues as well. The interiors and styling are terrible most of the time. The cars are crude at best.

Power is not everything. No thank you.

And the S54 can probably run up against the Nissan motors for pure power. Some are nearing or slightly above 400hp N/A, without opening the engine. Out of 3.2 liters. Unlike Nissan, BMW doesn't see boring the motor out as the solution to every power problem

IIRC the VQ has it's fair share of issues as well. One of them has to do with burning so much oil that the motor fails entirely?

But we should stop derailing the thread.
Quality issues and crappy interiors? I though we were talking about the mainstream Nissan brand and not a luxury make like BMW (which has had questionable interiors and down right horrid quality)

That said, Nissan doesn't think the only answer to power is to have a overstroked motor tha vibrates instelf apart. I'll put a built VQ over a S54 any day of the week.

I think Nissan is a good alternative to those who want a RWD 6cyl car that can handle some track duty - what would you suggest?
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:58 PM   #66
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Quality issues and crappy interiors? I though we were talking about the mainstream Nissan brand and not a luxury make like BMW (which has had questionable interiors and down right horrid quality)

That said, Nissan doesn't think the only answer to power is to have a overstroked motor tha vibrates instelf apart. I'll put a built VQ over a S54 any day of the week.

I think Nissan is a good alternative to those who want a RWD 6cyl car that can handle some track duty - what would you suggest?
Lol...even the GTR and infiniti interiors are bleh in comparison...unless you bought an abused M3...
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:01 PM   #67
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Quality issues and crappy interiors? I though we were talking about the mainstream Nissan brand and not a luxury make like BMW (which has had questionable interiors and down right horrid quality)

That said, Nissan doesn't think the only answer to power is to have a overstroked motor tha vibrates instelf apart. I'll put a built VQ over a S54 any day of the week.

I think Nissan is a good alternative to those who want a RWD 6cyl car that can handle some track duty - what would you suggest?
I agree! But a 370z has some issues that you MUST address immediately such as the right (could be left) hand fuel starvation. Out of the box, I think BMW makes the best complete lineup of cars that can be put on the track...after Porsche.

The E46 was designed in the late 90's The Nissan 350/370 came out much later so it has the benefit of updating its market. BMWs answer is the E9X which, IMO, solves all of the E46 issues. I've driven my pretty much stock E90 M3 on the track, its a beast! It did need a BBK...badly.

Still, I may be biased, I think BMW M makes a car that is more track ready. Its the little details...fuel baffle, semi-dry oil sump, beefy drivetrain. I think the E46 M3 gets a bad rep for some reliability issues when its really a function of the purpose...which is a dual purpose car.

The only tolerable street car that goes RIGHT on the track is a Porsche GT3. Every other car that I know of needs "things". But a stock E9X M3 gets close. Just needs big brakes and front camber plates.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:11 PM   #68
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Lol...even the GTR and infiniti interiors are bleh in comparison...unless you bought an abused M3...
M3s interior isn't that impressive. Just saying.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:14 PM   #69
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I agree! But a 370z has some issues that you MUST address immediately such as the right (could be left) hand fuel starvation. Out of the box, I think BMW makes the best complete lineup of cars that can be put on the track...after Porsche.

The E46 was designed in the late 90's The Nissan 350/370 came out much later so it has the benefit of updating its market. BMWs answer is the E9X which, IMO, solves all of the E46 issues. I've driven my pretty much stock E90 M3 on the track, its a beast! It did need a BBK...badly.

Still, I may be biased, I think BMW M makes a car that is more track ready. Its the little details...fuel baffle, semi-dry oil sump, beefy drivetrain. I think the E46 M3 gets a bad rep for some reliability issues when its really a function of the purpose...which is a dual purpose car.

The only tolerable street car that goes RIGHT on the track is a Porsche GT3. Every other car that I know of needs "things". But a stock E9X M3 gets close. Just needs big brakes and front camber plates.
The 370Z has many issues - including the fuel starvation, brake cooling and engine oil temps (a fault shared with the S54) I'd say a 350Z DE/HR would be better in those regards. I'm just not sold on BMW, I mean the cars look nice, but I just feel like so much was half assed. A Solidly engineered half ass effort that is (if that make sense)
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:24 PM   #70
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The 370Z has many issues - including the fuel starvation, brake cooling and engine oil temps (a fault shared with the S54) I'd say a 350Z DE/HR would be better in those regards. I'm just not sold on BMW, I mean the cars look nice, but I just feel like so much was half assed. A Solidly engineered half ass effort that is (if that make sense)
Well...we are in a cost cutting world. Other marques aren't that much better...they all have their issues. The question is which issues can you deal with? I have had good luck with my BMW interiors so far...
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:54 PM   #71
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I'd take an e46 M3 all day every day over a 350Z
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:55 PM   #72
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I'd take an e46 M3 all day every day over a 350Z
Me too, because it has a back seat. A G35 coupe and an E46M area different story...
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:15 PM   #73
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M3s interior isn't that impressive. Just saying.
The M3 interior isn't impressive in your opinion. Okay- so a 350Z interior has to be appalling. It's awful. I haven't spent much time around 370Zs. If you think BMW interiors are bad- your only answer (based on the qualities you want in a car) is Porsche.

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The 370Z has many issues - including the fuel starvation, brake cooling and engine oil temps (a fault shared with the S54) I'd say a 350Z DE/HR would be better in those regards. I'm just not sold on BMW, I mean the cars look nice, but I just feel like so much was half assed. A Solidly engineered half ass effort that is (if that make sense)
Speaking of half-assing, that brake cooling issue you mentioned. Do you remember the CD write up on that? Lack of brake cooling on the NISMO brake equipped car sent it into a wall. Nissan took it back- said they "fixed" the issue and still didn't. A 335i (not a car made for the track) demolished the 370Z with every brake upgrade Nissan had. Apparently- brake ducts didn't look cool, or weren't good for fuel economy. Talk about half assed engineering!

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The cause? It certainly wasn't a case of running out of talent. No-fact is, the NISMO's presumably strong brakes weren't. And they failed us at the worst possible time-at the fastest point on the track, when we were attempting to decelerate from 130 mph for the 45-mph right-hander that is Turn One.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-lightning-lap

I haven't heard much in regards to oil temperature issues on the S54. N54 and N55 yes.

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Me too, because it has a back seat. A G35 coupe and an E46M area different story...
A G35 over an E46 M3? Stock for stock? I wouldn't take a G35 over my ZHP- and it's not because I hold my ZHP in such high regard.

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Old 03-10-2013, 06:24 PM   #74
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The M3 interior isn't impressive in your opinion. Okay- so a 350Z interior has to be appalling. It's awful. I haven't spent much time around 370Zs. If you think BMW interiors are bad- your only answer (based on the qualities you want in a car) is Porsche.



Speaking of half-assing, that brake cooling issue you mentioned. Do you remember the CD write up on that? Lack of brake cooling on the NISMO brake equipped car sent it into a wall. Nissan took it back- said they "fixed" the issue and still didn't. A 335i (not a car made for the track) demolished the 370Z with every brake upgrade Nissan had. Apparently- brake ducts didn't look cool, or weren't good for fuel economy. Talk about half assed engineering!



http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-lightning-lap

I haven't heard much in regards to oil temperature issues on the S54. N54 and N55 yes.



A G35 over an E46 M3? Stock for stock? I wouldn't take a G35 over my ZHP- and it's not because I hold my ZHP in such high regard.
You should looke on any BMW forum, the S54s do run higher temps is run hard.
Very aware of the 370Zs issues, which is why I mentioned them. I think the G35 is a better all around car compared to the 3 series.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:31 PM   #75
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Me too, because it has a back seat. A G35 coupe and an E46M area different story...
Whatever drugs you are on...I need some because clearly you are in some other world.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:36 PM   #76
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M3s interior isn't that impressive. Just saying.
Now i'm confused are we comparing a 2002 BMW M3's interior to a 2010+ Nissan GTR that (base) costs more than the E46 M3 even when compared msrp/new to msrp/new?

I own (and have owned) quite a few BMW's.. I've always found their interiors to be very enjoyable and for the most part I feel their interiors never 'age' trend wise.. they never look 'gimmicky' in my opinion.

My 2009 X5 has an awesome interior.. very well done if you ask me. I also like the E92 Interior, M6 Interior, etc.. the ONLY interior I was never a huge fan of was the Z4.. I hated the flip top navigation, and found the interior to be very lacking in terms of ideal placement.. cup holders are crap, etc..
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:39 PM   #77
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The 370Z has many issues - including the fuel starvation, brake cooling and engine oil temps (a fault shared with the S54) I'd say a 350Z DE/HR would be better in those regards. I'm just not sold on BMW, I mean the cars look nice, but I just feel like so much was half assed. A Solidly engineered half ass effort that is (if that make sense)
I never had any oil temp issues in my car save for once when I was stuck in stop and go traffic in Arizona , down a quart.. for 3 hours.. in 100+ degree heat... in a car that puts almost 900rwhp to the ground.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:09 PM   #78
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I worked at an Infiniti dealership years ago, drove all types of G35's, I can say 100% I'd take an e46 M3 all day every day as well.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:09 PM   #79
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M3s interior isn't that impressive. Just saying.


Compared to what?
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:02 PM   #80
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My 2004 330ci was and is better than any G35 of the same year.

At the time I was shopping around for my car, I test drove a number of G35's and could not find one that I liked. Between all the numb feedback, sense of disconnect, and a shifter that vibrated like crazy, I could not find one I liked. I fell in love with the very first BMW I test drove.

Keep in mind that at this point, I had no affiliation with BMW or Infiniti.

And I have driven my friends 370z and that has to be one of the worst cars I have ever driven. Just the clutch alone would make me never want to buy that car, let alone the piss poor visibility.
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