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Old 02-18-2013, 04:11 PM   #21
rohde88
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Because the government is so good at spotting the fake paper marriages ey? It can be "proven" with ease....without even being in the country.
There certainly is marriage fraud, but that is proving a private relationship between two people vs proving you were in a certain country at a certain time (when you were trying to keep a low profile).

If you want to argue the efficacy numbers that presupposes that a bill will pass. Thats why I hate all the voter fraud arguments--no one really knows how often it happens.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:22 PM   #22
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There certainly is marriage fraud, but that is proving a private relationship between two people vs proving you were in a certain country at a certain time (when you were trying to keep a low profile).

If you want to argue the efficacy numbers that presupposes that a bill will pass. Thats why I hate all the voter fraud arguments--no one really knows how often it happens.
Proving how long you have been in the US isn't a problem because it isn't an issue. Once a law like this is passed it will be rampant.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:23 PM   #23
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Funny how conservatives have no problem with people who illegally enter from Cuba, just Mexico.
I have a problem with ANYONE coming here ILLEGALLY, Mexicans, Cubans, Canadians, and the Brits and the French.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:34 PM   #24
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Once a law like this is passed it will be rampant.
I dont think so, foreign nationals are routinely granted Temporary Protected Status (i.e. Haitians after 2010 earthquake) but the courts are very good at finding fraud.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:31 PM   #25
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Bad argument. Assuming immigration reform gets passed this year, 27 years will have elapsed between the 1986 immigration amnesty and this one. That's a long time to wait for amnesty. The ones who came here legally already got to work legally and contribute to their Social Security plans and enjoyed the full protection of the law.

You act as if illegal immigrants and legal immigrants were in the same socioeconomic class. For the most part, they are not. Me and my parents came here legally. I don't feel betrayed by the Federal government if they bestow legal status on those illegals.


Funny how all of the sudden people started out as immigrants.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:45 PM   #26
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I dont think so, foreign nationals are routinely granted Temporary Protected Status (i.e. Haitians after 2010 earthquake) but the courts are very good at finding fraud.
Surely you jest....they don't even know who is IN the country, and IF by some chance they actually schedule a court date, they don't even go after the person when they don't show up.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:48 PM   #27
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Bad argument. Assuming immigration reform gets passed this year, 27 years will have elapsed between the 1986 immigration amnesty and this one. That's a long time to wait for amnesty. The ones who came here legally already got to work legally and contribute to their Social Security plans and enjoyed the full protection of the law.

You act as if illegal immigrants and legal immigrants were in the same socioeconomic class. For the most part, they are not. Me and my parents came here legally. I don't feel betrayed by the Federal government if they bestow legal status on those illegals.
No, it is your argument that's bad. I feel betrayed when my family had to spend a lot of time and money trying to get their relatives into the US. I also feel bad for my mother's clients that have to wait it out in sh!tty situations for YEARS while someone else just jumps a fence or comes here on a floating door. You are rewarding breaking federal law. If that's the type of country you'd like to live in, by all means but don't for one second try and sell me the nonsense posted above.

I figured I need to add one more thing that rubbed me the wrong way.....the bold part....what a hypocritical thing to say....you have no problem with it NOW, that you are warm and cozy in your capitalist life on American soil, but I bet your parents would have a problem with it if some fence jumper kept them from coming in.....do you realize how this makes you sound? "I got mine so f*** the rest of em."
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:53 PM   #28
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Funny how conservatives have no problem with people who illegally enter from Cuba, just Mexico.
We just don't like cubans who are under investigation by the FBI for raping underage girls in the Dominican Republic and having those finicky oversights when it comes time to pay for said trips.

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Old 02-18-2013, 05:57 PM   #29
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We just don't like cubans who are under investigation by the FBI for raping underage girls in the Dominican Republic and having those finicky oversights when it comes time to pay for said trips.

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Cubans are actually extremely educated, sharp individuals. This country would benefit from a few more Cubans.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:05 PM   #30
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Cubans are actually extremely educated, sharp individuals. This country would benefit from a few more Cubans.
I agree but I'll pass on the raping kind.

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Old 02-18-2013, 06:07 PM   #31
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I agree but I'll pass on the raping kind.

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I have no problem adopting the Canadian point system for immigration. (Along with the criminal checks of course.)
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:16 PM   #32
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Why even bother securing (lol) the border?

Now they'll have a verified reward for coming here

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Old 02-18-2013, 06:20 PM   #33
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You do realize what this will mean right? It means that no one will ever again go through the process legally. There is no reason to. Its FAR easier to do it illegally. Just like guns, it is FAR easier to get a gun illegally than it is legally (in many states anyway.) I know this is just hot air, since a bill like this would NEVER pass, but just the fact that we would allow them a path to residency without fixing everything else is nothing short of insanity.

I also love your hypocrisy....I have yet to see you make comments like this;

1) "Those homosexuals can get the hell out and go live on some island where they can stick each other all day long."

2) "Those lazy blacks that sit on welfare, pop out 15 kids a piece and use the abortion revolving door should just go live on an island somewhere or go somewhere else where they can get their problems paid for."

You seem to stick up for illegals just fine, but immigrants contributing to the US, following the law of this land, and doing things the right way deserve to be punished. If that isn't libtard logic, I don't know what is. Only a liberal can be ok with ILLEGAL immigration, but tell LEGAL immigrants to f*** off elsewhere.

And one more thing....the US has the RIGHT or Duty if we are talking facts here to ENFORCE the laws they create, not ignore them, and write new ones.

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You're very hypocritical and a flip flopper. You'd fit in well with the rest of Washington.
Jimmies rusted much you two?

As Rapier7 already pointed out. There has been amnesty granted to illegals before. Back in '86 under the GOP demi-god Ronald Reagan. Yep, that's right right all you conservatives...Ronald Bleepin Reagan did virtually the same thing. So its not as if this is some liberal new-world order conspiracy. It was tried and worked rather well.

So NFR, to say a bill like this would never pass. This is what is so comical about you. You want to speak so authoritatively about America and what we have fallen to and the "pu$$ification of America", and yet, you know so little of what has actually happened here. To say a bill like this would never pass when one already did, and under a republican administration no less. Comedy gold.

We "owe" legal and illegal immigrants the exact same thing. Sod freakin all. The fact is the US has the RIGHT to change our immigration laws whenever we want. We could close the boarders to legal immigration tomorrow if the legislation could be passed. And all those folks that are legally waiting in line, well...sucks to be them. Life is a b!tch ain't it. Such action is not unconstitutional. If we choose to grant one illegal immigrants amnesty, we are within are powers to do so.

And for the record I never said I approved or disapproved of the legislation. Merely that it is a good political ploy, creates political leverage, and is perfectly acceptable. (Since it has been done before. I keep forgetting that some of you were just a gleam in the milkman's eye back in '86 and that since it happened before google and youtube, it really doesn't count. )

It is hardly a flip-flop either. We are not talking about the rights and equalities of US citizens nor are we talking about unconstitutional legislation.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:29 PM   #34
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Jimmies rusted much you two?

As Rapier7 already pointed out. There has been amnesty granted to illegals before. Back in '86 under the GOP demi-god Ronald Reagan. Yep, that's right right all you conservatives...Ronald Bleepin Reagan did virtually the same thing. So its not as if this is some liberal new-world order conspiracy. It was tried and worked rather well.

So NFR, to say a bill like this would never pass. This is what is so comical about you. You want to speak so authoritatively about America and what we have fallen to and the "pu$$ification of America", and yet, you know so little of what has actually happened here. To say a bill like this would never pass when one already did, and under a republican administration no less. Comedy gold.

We "owe" legal and illegal immigrants the exact same thing. Sod freakin all. The fact is the US has the RIGHT to change our immigration laws whenever we want. We could close the boarders to legal immigration tomorrow if the legislation could be passed. And all those folks that are legally waiting in line, well...sucks to be them. Life is a b!tch ain't it. Such action is not unconstitutional. If we choose to grant one illegal immigrants amnesty, we are within are powers to do so.

And for the record I never said I approved or disapproved of the legislation. Merely that it is a good political ploy, creates political leverage, and is perfectly acceptable. (Since it has been done before. I keep forgetting that some of you were just a gleam in the milkman's eye back in '86 and that since it happened before google and youtube, it really doesn't count. )

It is hardly a flip-flop either. We are not talking about the rights and equalities of US citizens nor are we talking about unconstitutional legislation.
It was pretty obvious from my post that I meant it would not be passed TODAY.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...d-gop-outrage/

You're right, we don't owe anyone anything. Having said that, you are still a hypocrite to the n'th degree. You cry "it's not fair" when the poor get poorer, when gays can't marry, and when stoners can't smoke up, but "life's not fair" is a perfectly ok argument when it suits the liberal immigration agenda ey?

To top it all off, yes, lets compare today with 1986. It's not like the circumstances have changed or anything. Why do liberals refuse to carry their opinions evenly across the board? In 1776 we needed guns to free us from the Brits...so why you wanna ban guns?
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:31 PM   #35
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No, it is your argument that's bad. I feel betrayed when my family had to spend a lot of time and money trying to get their relatives into the US. I also feel bad for my mother's clients that have to wait it out in sh!tty situations for YEARS while someone else just jumps a fence or comes here on a floating door. You are rewarding breaking federal law. If that's the type of country you'd like to live in, by all means but don't for one second try and sell me the nonsense posted above.
If you have lived in the country for more than 27 years, that is the type of country you have been living in. If you have been living in this country or trying to legally enter this country less than 27 years, you know that is the type of country you are trying coming to. Illegal amnesty happened once and that it could happen again.

So save us all this "you feel betrayed" cr@pola. And obviously if your mom has all these clients you feel so "bad" for, well illegal amnesty hasn't hurt her business, now has it. There are still plenty of people lining up to get in here legally, even 27 years after illegal amnesty happened. So that sort of blows your "nobody is going to bother coming in legally argument" out of the water, now doesn't it. Hoisted on your on petard.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:36 PM   #36
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If you have lived in the country for more than 27 years, that is the type of country you have been living in. If you have been living in this country or trying to legally enter this country less than 27 years, you know that is the type of country you are trying coming to. Illegal amnesty happened once and that it could happen again.

So save us all this "you feel betrayed" cr@pola. And obviously if your mom has all these clients you feel so "bad" for, well illegal amnesty hasn't hurt her business, now has it. There are still plenty of people lining up to get in here legally, even 27 years after illegal amnesty happened. So that sort of blows your "nobody is going to bother coming in legally argument" out of the water, now doesn't it. Hoisted on your on petard.
It's not a law yet. Once people know they can just come here illegally, you really think people are going to pay lawyers and wait in their sh!tty situations for years when they can just come here and get on the gravy boat like everyone else?
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:41 PM   #37
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Care to elaborate? Without securing the border, you're essentially offering this to anyone willing to travel to Mexico and walk across into the usa.

Even CNN is hounding the draft on their starting Monday program as I type this
What a load of horse ****.

Sorry, my wife is from the UK and it was a pain in the butt just getting her a green card. By doing this is spits in the face of others who have or are trying to come into this country legally.

Secure the border? Want to know how you do that. Fine any company the hires an illegal immigrant 500,000 dollars for each one. Guess what, every one of them would go back to Mexico. I saved you the money of building a stupid fence that won't work.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:22 PM   #38
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What a load of horse ****.

Sorry, my wife is from the UK and it was a pain in the butt just getting her a green card. By doing this is spits in the face of others who have or are trying to come into this country legally.

Secure the border? Want to know how you do that. Fine any company the hires an illegal immigrant 500,000 dollars for each one. Guess what, every one of them would go back to Mexico. I saved you the money of building a stupid fence that won't work.
Get out of here with your facts and logic.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:25 PM   #39
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Funny how all of the sudden people started out as immigrants.
You think I'm kidding? I was born in Beijing. I came here when I was 3. I am literally a first generation immigrant. I'm very grateful for the fact that I was able to come to the US and begrudge no one the ability nor desire to do the same.

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No, it is your argument that's bad. I feel betrayed when my family had to spend a lot of time and money trying to get their relatives into the US. I also feel bad for my mother's clients that have to wait it out in sh!tty situations for YEARS while someone else just jumps a fence or comes here on a floating door. You are rewarding breaking federal law. If that's the type of country you'd like to live in, by all means but don't for one second try and sell me the nonsense posted above.
How are we rewarding them? We're granting them a reprieve. They can finally come out of the shadows and stop being preyed upon by people who exploit their illegal status. I don't blame anybody for wanting to move from a poor country to a rich country. That kind of thing should not be illegal.

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I figured I need to add one more thing that rubbed me the wrong way.....the bold part....what a hypocritical thing to say....you have no problem with it NOW, that you are warm and cozy in your capitalist life on American soil, but I bet your parents would have a problem with it if some fence jumper kept them from coming in.....do you realize how this makes you sound? "I got mine so f*** the rest of em."
My parents vote Democrat and they support comprehensive immigration reform. Plus do you realize how stupid you sound? How is my argument the "**** you, I got mine" argument? That's YOUR argument. I want them to come. Every one. Let them come and stop forcing them to wait years and spend thousands of dollars before being granted immigrant visas. AND I want the illegal immigrants currently here to have a chance to live life as Americans.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:26 PM   #40
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You think I'm kidding? I was born in Beijing. I came here when I was 3. I am literally a first generation immigrant. I'm very grateful for the fact that I was able to come to the US and begrudge no one the ability nor desire to do the same.


How are we rewarding them? We're granting them a reprieve. They can finally come out of the shadows and stop being preyed upon by people who exploit their illegal status. I don't blame anybody for wanting to move from a poor country to a rich country. That kind of thing should not be illegal.


My parents vote Democrat and they support comprehensive immigration reform. Plus do you realize how stupid you sound? How is my argument the "**** you, I got mine" argument? That's YOUR argument. I want them to come. Every one. Let them come and stop forcing them to wait years and spend thousands of dollars before being granted immigrant visas. AND I want the illegal immigrants currently here to have a chance to live life as Americans.
If thats what you want, then you would be on Rubio's boat, not Obama's. They would need to PAY PENALTIES first. Then have a period of X amount of years where they would have a permit to WORK and work only, and can not be convicted of any crime...THEN...after 7 years, they can get on the back of the bus. Obama is proposing NO SUCH THING. Your post earlier also didn't reflect any of this. We also don't want "all of them to come." We need a point system. People should have priority like any other decent country. Other than family, people are accepted based on the need of the nation (like Canada does.) You also seem to gloss over that Obama's plan has nothing to do with actually fixing the immigration issue, but rather get a bunch of votes.

As for the bold....you do realize the majority of the earth's population is dirt poor right? So we should just blindly accept anyone without consequence just because they come from a poor country? 75% of the worlds population is either poor or oppressed. Surely you don't think that anyone should be able to jump over the fence and be granted "status" are you? What are they doing to stop another wave of 11 million more coming over the fence? I don't mind illegals having some sort of a chance, especially the children. However, saying "even though the first thing you did here is break a federal law, we're gonna forget all about it." That sets a dangerous precedent. What are we going to do with the illegals that have been convicted of a crime? Let them stay too?
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