E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-26-2013, 04:54 PM   #81
rohde88
Registered User
 
rohde88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 854
My Ride: S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
His jimmies are rustled because he works in HR.
Are you talking about me?
__________________
-Ron
rohde88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 04:57 PM   #82
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohde88 View Post
Are you talking about me?
No. CINL
__________________
Quote:
Base Salary - $174,000 a year
Perks - Certain exemptions of law while in service, include tax subsidies
Sick Days - Unlimited
Working Days in 2013 - 159
Accountability for poor performance - None
Healthcare - Top notch

Want to complain about entitlements.....start with Congress.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 05:30 PM   #83
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohde88 View Post
There are rumors Obama and admin are going to cause TSA delays in order to gather public support to increase DHS funding. Republicans can't oppose it if their constituents demand it.
Not gonna lie, with the majority of the public completely uninformed, that's a brilliant tactical plan. I've said it before and ill say it again, I think Obama is one of the worlds best politicians.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 05:36 PM   #84
rdsesq
ouroboros autorotica
 
rdsesq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cali...the only state that matters
Posts: 1,452
My Ride: 2002 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
America wasn't made great by fence jumpers, so lets get that right. Stop pettifogging the issue. This solution will simply allow them to work here, live here and pay taxes. If they want to become citizens, they can have the same path as the other few billion people on the planet. You need to wrap your head around the fact that this is actually two separate issues.
You can't be a fence jumper when for 150+ years there was no fence to jump in the first place. If there had been, plenty of those people would have jumped the fence. Why? Because they didn't have 2 nickels to rub together, let alone the money it would take to go through "proper legal channels" to get here. A great many of those people who came here didn't have a job or family here. They didn't have a pot to pi$$ in.

There is nothing wrong with the occasional amnesty every 30 years or so. But, also more stringent enforcement of immigration laws before and after. You really want to slow illegal immigration. Bigger fines for those caught hiring illegals. "But...that hurts business!!" Yes it does, but, ya can't have your cake and eat too.

I don't have a problem with hospitals being able to turn away people how are in the country illegally. I am OK with social services being denied to them. I can maybe see an exception made for children of illegals in public K-12 schools. But, no ESL classes. Suck it up kiddies. English is the language in this country, deal with it. Learn it. Of course, I also don't think the DMV forms and other government non-immigration material should be provided in any other language but English. Hey, you are in America. English is the language we use. Learn it. If that puts you at a disadvantage for a couple of years when you first get here, well...life ain't fair. Nobody said you had to come here, legally or illegally.

To create a class of immigrants who get to pay taxes and have no opportunity to become citizens but expect them to pay taxes, including into SocSec, which they will never qualify for is absurd. Come to our country and work so we can tax you and give you no benefits to that taxation. Talk about taxation without representation. In case it slipped your history class, that was one of the things we fought the war of independence for. Not to mention, if there is no possibility of citizenship, those people are going to be taking as much of their money as possible and shipping it out of the country. Yeah, that's gonna help the US economy.


At least I'll give Rapier7 props, he is "all about the economy" and keeps & holds that position.

It is funny how some of these "pro-business" folks all of a sudden get their knickers in a twist around immigration. Then all of a sudden its "well...my parents did it "the right way", so they should". "Tax loopholes to get around the bloated tax code and not pay all the tax you should are OK, but, hoping a fence to try and make a better life and taking the low paying jobs most people won't isn't." Its freakin comical.
__________________
"The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon."
-- Dr Manhattan

quis custodiet ipsos custodes
rdsesq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 06:15 PM   #85
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsesq View Post
You can't be a fence jumper when for 150+ years there was no fence to jump in the first place. If there had been, plenty of those people would have jumped the fence. Why? Because they didn't have 2 nickels to rub together, let alone the money it would take to go through "proper legal channels" to get here. A great many of those people who came here didn't have a job or family here. They didn't have a pot to pi$$ in.

There is nothing wrong with the occasional amnesty every 30 years or so. But, also more stringent enforcement of immigration laws before and after. You really want to slow illegal immigration. Bigger fines for those caught hiring illegals. "But...that hurts business!!" Yes it does, but, ya can't have your cake and eat too.

I don't have a problem with hospitals being able to turn away people how are in the country illegally. I am OK with social services being denied to them. I can maybe see an exception made for children of illegals in public K-12 schools. But, no ESL classes. Suck it up kiddies. English is the language in this country, deal with it. Learn it. Of course, I also don't think the DMV forms and other government non-immigration material should be provided in any other language but English. Hey, you are in America. English is the language we use. Learn it. If that puts you at a disadvantage for a couple of years when you first get here, well...life ain't fair. Nobody said you had to come here, legally or illegally.

To create a class of immigrants who get to pay taxes and have no opportunity to become citizens but expect them to pay taxes, including into SocSec, which they will never qualify for is absurd. Come to our country and work so we can tax you and give you no benefits to that taxation. Talk about taxation without representation. In case it slipped your history class, that was one of the things we fought the war of independence for. Not to mention, if there is no possibility of citizenship, those people are going to be taking as much of their money as possible and shipping it out of the country. Yeah, that's gonna help the US economy.


At least I'll give Rapier7 props, he is "all about the economy" and keeps & holds that position.

It is funny how some of these "pro-business" folks all of a sudden get their knickers in a twist around immigration. Then all of a sudden its "well...my parents did it "the right way", so they should". "Tax loopholes to get around the bloated tax code and not pay all the tax you should are OK, but, hoping a fence to try and make a better life and taking the low paying jobs most people won't isn't." Its freakin comical.
You mean like me? With no jobs, no family, and coming over here LEGALLY with $180 dollars between 3 people and the clothes on our back? Immigration and ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES, and cannot be solved TOGETHER. The illegal immigrants would get their status. They will no longer be hunted by ICE and can work any job they can get, including check jobs. They can save their money, and take the SAME CHANNEL OF CITIZENSHIP as everyone else in the world. They should not be given ANY slack because unlike everyone else, the FIRST thing they did is break the law. You are also assuming that all of them are Mexicans. There are PLENTY of visa overstayers that "cut the line" and just stayed here. There must be punishment. That punishment is they pay taxes, pay into the SS system, etc. I can agree to a law that will keep their names on record, and IF they decide to later take a legal channel to citizenship, their SS contributions will stay with them.

If you think giving those the right to vote that broke the law entering this country is a wise move, then there is nothing more to discuss. Lest we also forget that prisoners don't have the right to vote, and they might be in prison for a low rent crime, where as these people broke federal law.
__________________

Last edited by NFRs2000nyc; 02-26-2013 at 06:22 PM.
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 11:04 PM   #86
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsesq View Post
You can't be a fence jumper when for 150+ years there was no fence to jump in the first place. If there had been, plenty of those people would have jumped the fence. Why? Because they didn't have 2 nickels to rub together, let alone the money it would take to go through "proper legal channels" to get here. A great many of those people who came here didn't have a job or family here. They didn't have a pot to pi$$ in.

There is nothing wrong with the occasional amnesty every 30 years or so. But, also more stringent enforcement of immigration laws before and after. You really want to slow illegal immigration. Bigger fines for those caught hiring illegals. "But...that hurts business!!" Yes it does, but, ya can't have your cake and eat too.

I don't have a problem with hospitals being able to turn away people how are in the country illegally. I am OK with social services being denied to them. I can maybe see an exception made for children of illegals in public K-12 schools. But, no ESL classes. Suck it up kiddies. English is the language in this country, deal with it. Learn it. Of course, I also don't think the DMV forms and other government non-immigration material should be provided in any other language but English. Hey, you are in America. English is the language we use. Learn it. If that puts you at a disadvantage for a couple of years when you first get here, well...life ain't fair. Nobody said you had to come here, legally or illegally.

To create a class of immigrants who get to pay taxes and have no opportunity to become citizens but expect them to pay taxes, including into SocSec, which they will never qualify for is absurd. Come to our country and work so we can tax you and give you no benefits to that taxation. Talk about taxation without representation. In case it slipped your history class, that was one of the things we fought the war of independence for. Not to mention, if there is no possibility of citizenship, those people are going to be taking as much of their money as possible and shipping it out of the country. Yeah, that's gonna help the US economy.


At least I'll give Rapier7 props, he is "all about the economy" and keeps & holds that position.

It is funny how some of these "pro-business" folks all of a sudden get their knickers in a twist around immigration. Then all of a sudden its "well...my parents did it "the right way", so they should". "Tax loopholes to get around the bloated tax code and not pay all the tax you should are OK, but, hoping a fence to try and make a better life and taking the low paying jobs most people won't isn't." Its freakin comical.
Your post reminds me of the gooback episode of South Park. If letting everyone from a crappy situation come here no strings attached ends up making our situation crappy, is it really worth it?

I do see some redemption in your post about learning English and denying services to illegals, though. Nothing grinds my gears like illegal immigrants pushing fake BS lawsuits through our tort system. I'd gather roughly 25-50% of the cases I handle on that end of my practice involve illegals who either are too stupid to not get injured or are intentionally getting injured to pursue lawsuits.

I did chuckle when you said it wasn't fair to have them pay into SS when they don't even qualify it, I don't recall you having a problem with younger legal American citizens paying into SS when there won't be any money left when they are of age.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 12:16 AM   #87
rdsesq
ouroboros autorotica
 
rdsesq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cali...the only state that matters
Posts: 1,452
My Ride: 2002 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Your post reminds me of the gooback episode of South Park. If letting everyone from a crappy situation come here no strings attached ends up making our situation crappy, is it really worth it?
Occasional amnesty is letting everyone from a crappy situation come here no strings attached. Ok...whatever helps you sleep at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
I do see some redemption in your post about learning English and denying services to illegals, though. Nothing grinds my gears like illegal immigrants pushing fake BS lawsuits through our tort system. I'd gather roughly 25-50% of the cases I handle on that end of my practice involve illegals who either are too stupid to not get injured or are intentionally getting injured to pursue lawsuits.
I take it that your practice is defending against these illegals and not representing them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
I did chuckle when you said it wasn't fair to have them pay into SS when they don't even qualify it, I don't recall you having a problem with younger legal American citizens paying into SS when there won't be any money left when they are of age.
Then you recall incorrectly. I have always been of the view that since the govt has people paying into SocSec, the govt has a responsibility to make sure those that pay in get benefits out when the time comes. Its the bed that was made, gotsta to lay in it. Now they could phase out SocSec over time, but that would require massive budget constraints and getting the deficit substantially reduced. And remain SocSec benefits could start to be paid from general tax dollars. That could happen, but, it sure as hell ain't gonna happen over night. SocSec is going to be around for a long time to come.
__________________
"The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon."
-- Dr Manhattan

quis custodiet ipsos custodes
rdsesq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 12:27 AM   #88
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsesq View Post
Occasional amnesty is letting everyone from a crappy situation come here no strings attached. Ok...whatever helps you sleep at night.
No, you posted a bleeding heart emotional argument citing the declaration of independence. I was responding to that nonsense.

Quote:
I take it that your practice is defending against these illegals and not representing them.
You would be correct. That part of my practice is defense. You would not believe the things that come out at these depositions. Nannies making 50k a year off the books, using food stamps, getting section 8 housing, paying zero taxes. American born sophomores in high school that can't speak English. Central Americans that can't even communicate with a Spanish interpreter because they're so ignorant. It's one thing after another, and it is sickening to see it first hand on nearly a daily basis.

Quote:
Then you recall incorrectly. I have always been of the view that since the govt has people paying into SocSec, the govt has a responsibility to make sure those that pay in get benefits out when the time comes. Its the bed that was made, gotsta to lay in it. Now they could phase out SocSec over time, but that would require massive budget constraints and getting the deficit substantially reduced. And remain SocSec benefits could start to be paid from general tax dollars. That could happen, but, it sure as hell ain't gonna happen over night. SocSec is going to be around for a long time to come.
Of course the government has the responsibility to make good on their promises. The problem is, mathematically, they wont be able to make good on that promise. There are more than a few experts who are saying that there will be no SS when I retire, and definitely not when my kids retire.

The government also lied with their 'lock box' sales pitch, quite blatantly mind you. They raided the 'lock box' trust fund to pay for their pet projects and we're all to suffer for it. SS is a scam, a poni scheme, and everyone would have been better off if the money was deposited directly (by law) into an individual savings account that could not be touched until 65.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin

Last edited by Act of God; 02-27-2013 at 12:28 AM.
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 07:38 AM   #89
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post



Of course the government has the responsibility to make good on their promises. The problem is, mathematically, they wont be able to make good on that promise. There are more than a few experts who are saying that there will be no SS when I retire, and definitely not when my kids retire.

The government also lied with their 'lock box' sales pitch, quite blatantly mind you. They raided the 'lock box' trust fund to pay for their pet projects and we're all to suffer for it. SS is a scam, a poni scheme, and everyone would have been better off if the money was deposited directly (by law) into an individual savings account that could not be touched until 65.
There is more speculation on the long term viability of SS than there is on climate change, it seems. Making a statement that it's a ponzi scheme, a scam, or that it won't be around in 20 years must mean you are a real life extra from the movie Looper and can travel to the future. If NOTHING were done between now and 2033 SS would still be able to pay 75% of its projected future payments going forward.

It's likely that SS won't be exactly the same as we see it now, and it's also likely that it will be around in the future. I do agree that we would be better off with individual accounts, but that's not the case, nor will it be in the future. Also, it was never meant to be JUST a retirement account, it serves plenty of other purposes.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig

Last edited by evolved; 02-27-2013 at 07:39 AM.
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 07:40 AM   #90
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
There is more speculation on the long term viability of SS than there is on climate change, it seems. Making a statement that it's a ponzi scheme, a scam, or that it won't be around in 20 years must mean you are a real life extra from the movie Looper and can travel to the future. If NOTHING were done between now and 2033 SS would still be able to pay 75% of its projected future payments going forward.

It's likely that SS won't be exactly the same as we see it now, and it's also likely that it will be around in the future. I do agree that we would be better off with individual accounts, but that's not the case, nor will it be in the future. Also, it was never meant to be JUST a retirement account, it serves plenty of other purposes.


I won't be retiring until long after 2033.
__________________
Quote:
Base Salary - $174,000 a year
Perks - Certain exemptions of law while in service, include tax subsidies
Sick Days - Unlimited
Working Days in 2013 - 159
Accountability for poor performance - None
Healthcare - Top notch

Want to complain about entitlements.....start with Congress.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 07:43 AM   #91
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
There is more speculation on the long term viability of SS than there is on climate change, it seems. Making a statement that it's a ponzi scheme, a scam, or that it won't be around in 20 years must mean you are a real life extra from the movie Looper and can travel to the future. If NOTHING were done between now and 2033 SS would still be able to pay 75% of its projected future payments going forward.

It's likely that SS won't be exactly the same as we see it now, and it's also likely that it will be around in the future. I do agree that we would be better off with individual accounts, but that's not the case, nor will it be in the future. Also, it was never meant to be JUST a retirement account, it serves plenty of other purposes.
Firstly, it technically is a ponzi scheme if you look at the nuts and the bolts of the plan. People put in money. Those people are later paid out with the money put in by people who come in after them. The entire plan relies on more people coming after you and putting in money. That is literally what a ponzi scheme is.

Secondly, it was sold to the American people as a retirement account. That is how they got it passed. More politician lies, I know, but the fact remains.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 07:48 AM   #92
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsesq View Post

I don't have a problem with hospitals being able to turn away people how are in the country illegally. I am OK with social services being denied to them. I can maybe see an exception made for children of illegals in public K-12 schools. But, no ESL classes. Suck it up kiddies. English is the language in this country, deal with it. Learn it. Of course, I also don't think the DMV forms and other government non-immigration material should be provided in any other language but English. Hey, you are in America. English is the language we use. Learn it. If that puts you at a disadvantage for a couple of years when you first get here, well...life ain't fair. Nobody said you had to come here, legally or illegally.

To create a class of immigrants who get to pay taxes and have no opportunity to become citizens but expect them to pay taxes, including into SocSec, which they will never qualify for is absurd. Come to our country and work so we can tax you and give you no benefits to that taxation. Talk about taxation without representation. In case it slipped your history class, that was one of the things we fought the war of independence for. Not to mention, if there is no possibility of citizenship, those people are going to be taking as much of their money as possible and shipping it out of the country. Yeah, that's gonna help the US economy.

It is funny how some of these "pro-business" folks all of a sudden get their knickers in a twist around immigration. Then all of a sudden its "well...my parents did it "the right way", so they should". "Tax loopholes to get around the bloated tax code and not pay all the tax you should are OK, but, hoping a fence to try and make a better life and taking the low paying jobs most people won't isn't." Its freakin comical.
I like these parts of your post. The rest is a wash. I do agree with rapier7 on some accounts.


I'm all for the immigrants who can come here legally and contribute. There are many high achieving folks from other countries who bring skills and knowledge not always accessible here in the U.S. My workplace speaks to that.
__________________
Quote:
Base Salary - $174,000 a year
Perks - Certain exemptions of law while in service, include tax subsidies
Sick Days - Unlimited
Working Days in 2013 - 159
Accountability for poor performance - None
Healthcare - Top notch

Want to complain about entitlements.....start with Congress.

Last edited by bimmerfan08; 02-27-2013 at 07:53 AM.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:24 AM   #93
rapier7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ATL
Posts: 78
My Ride: Subaru BRZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
I'm all for the immigrants who can come here legally and contribute. There are many high achieving folks from other countries who bring skills and knowledge not always accessible here in the U.S. My workplace speaks to that.
It's not about whether you want legal immigration or not. That's not the issue at stake here. It's whether you want an increase in legal immigration. The more legal immigration you allow, the less illegal immigration there will be.

The fact is demand for immigrant and temporary work visas and permanent residency vastly outstrips the current government-mandated supply and has for decades. Comprehensive immigration reform generally includes a pathway to permanent legal residency (and therefore citizenship) for illegals, a broadly expanded temporary worker visa program, and a more equitable way to gain immigrant visas and permanent legal residency that doesn't involve already having some sort of familial or professional connection in the US (or being rich, famous, or a certifiable genius).
__________________
http://meta-rhetoric.com - Unfiltered Reality
rapier7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:59 AM   #94
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
His jimmies are rustled because he works in HR.
Do you even sprinkle?
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 10:18 AM   #95
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
Do you even sprinkle?
I can tinkle. Does that count?
__________________
Quote:
Base Salary - $174,000 a year
Perks - Certain exemptions of law while in service, include tax subsidies
Sick Days - Unlimited
Working Days in 2013 - 159
Accountability for poor performance - None
Healthcare - Top notch

Want to complain about entitlements.....start with Congress.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 11:02 AM   #96
rohde88
Registered User
 
rohde88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 854
My Ride: S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapier7 View Post
It's not about whether you want legal immigration or not. That's not the issue at stake here. It's whether you want an increase in legal immigration. The more legal immigration you allow, the less illegal immigration there will be. .
Concur.

A truly efficient global market would have an equal flow of persons just as goods flow across borders.
__________________
-Ron
rohde88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 11:04 AM   #97
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 104
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
Given that it is highly unlikely that 8 million people will, cough, "self-deport," this seems like a fairly reasonable, practical and pragmatic solution. I think the whole immigration thing needs a good top-to-bottom revamp given its current level of disfuntionality (so that it requires such patches as being discussed).

Dems are certainly on board with all this and are reaping the votes of the large and rapidly growing Latino vote for their understanding and efforts. The 2012 election results were a stunning vindication of their approach and that Latino (and other immigrant/new American) vote will only get significantly larger for them.

The Repubs are quite fractured on this, certainly after using immigration primarily as a convenient political cudgel to appeal to the nativists in their base. On one hand, they can certainly count and demographic trends as it relates to the Latino vote, as evidenced in 2012, ought to induce some cold sweats. On the other hand, its hard for them to abandon their anti-immigration rhetoric and all those in their base to whom it appealed. Their kind of stuck trying to bend reality to their ideology rather than comport their idealogy to today's realities. In the end, the GPO is stuck between a big rock (appealing to they large nativist base) and a hard place (that old, white base is shrinking and simply won't produce enough votes to keep them in power against inexorable demographic trends). They're trying to massage their messaging a bit, but in the end, its still basically the same old message said with a bit more of a smile than a growl -- not sure that's going to win them much in the end.

The hard reality is that these 8 million folks are here to stay, regardless of how one thinks of it idealogically, so how best are we going to address that reality? Pretent they will somehow just go away or disappear? Wishful fantasizing, that. Is there a perfect solution? Of course not, there never is, but our current approach is clearly on the bad/ineffectual end of the scale. Far better to relatively quickly bring them fully into the light as fully fledged, tax-paying American citizens, while also reforming our immigration system overall to bring it up to meeting current realities, while also continuing to beef up border security as has been happening the past few years (record numbers of border agents, interceptions, arrests and deportations coupled with vastly lower illegal border crossings).

Last edited by Rhumb; 02-27-2013 at 11:14 AM.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 11:56 AM   #98
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhumb View Post
Dems are certainly on board with all this and are reaping the votes of the large and rapidly growing Latino vote for their understanding and efforts. The 2012 election results were a stunning vindication of their approach and that Latino (and other immigrant/new American) vote will only get significantly larger for them.
Jesus christ stop posting lies, I've already started a thread on this. Immigration ranks low with Hispanic voters and Republicans that have pushed for Amnesty and immigration reform have not garnered Hispanic votes.

Hispanics are typically poorer, they vote Democrat. Nothing else makes as much of a difference, so stop with your crackpot talking point lies.

Also, at least be honest here. If Hispanics voted socially conservative and all went GOP the Democrats would be playing the opposite side of the coin. They see it as vote importing and they have an eye on Texas. This isn't rocket science, so I'm sure you know this already.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 11:58 AM   #99
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Firstly, it technically is a ponzi scheme if you look at the nuts and the bolts of the plan. People put in money. Those people are later paid out with the money put in by people who come in after them. The entire plan relies on more people coming after you and putting in money. That is literally what a ponzi scheme is.

Secondly, it was sold to the American people as a retirement account. That is how they got it passed. More politician lies, I know, but the fact remains.
I disagree with your assumption on the ponzi scheme, but that's not for this thread. Also, how it was sold to the American people 50+ years ago is one thing, and how it has evolved today is a whole other topic.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 12:08 PM   #100
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
I disagree with your assumption on the ponzi scheme, but that's not for this thread. Also, how it was sold to the American people 50+ years ago is one thing, and how it has evolved today is a whole other topic.
Um, that's how every Federal program is sold to the idiot masses. Everything will be unicorns and rainbows, trust us! Every single program ever proposed has cost (exponentially) more than they promised it would. Every single program runs a deficit now.

That's the point, they sell us lies...get us hooked and then we can't turn back. I'd at least like to learn from history even if we can't undo it.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin

Last edited by Act of God; 02-27-2013 at 12:08 PM.
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use