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Old 03-02-2013, 11:36 AM   #81
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Here's the big thing, though. Our defense spending as a percentage is the lowest it's been since world war 2.

I think last number I heard was around 3% of GDP, but defense is being told to shoulder half the current budget cut.

I'm all for reducing spending, and there is certainly money that can be cut from the DoD, but indiscriminate across the board cuts are not the way to go.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:38 AM   #82
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Here's the big thing, though. Our defense spending as a percentage is the lowest it's been since world war 2.

I think last number I heard was around 3% of GDP, but defense is being told to shoulder half the current budget cut.

I'm all for reducing spending, and there is certainly money that can be cut from the DoD, but indiscriminate across the board cuts are not the way to go.
I agree.

Edit: Where did you get the bit about the lowest spending % since WWII? Just curious.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:43 AM   #83
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It was in Forbes in the past year. I'll hunt a bit
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:44 AM   #84
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Nothing personal with me, I actually said in this thread I'm happy to have a job, so I can't/won't really complain about it much. Again, we provide a service to the private sector, that the private sector does not provide. Flying units will cut back on training, aircraft and engine depot induction will be delayed (our AC are old), and construction plans are forced to be put on hold/cancelled. I agree some "fat" needs to be carved Zach, but just cause you hear some Airman you know talk about how bloated his program is doesn't mean cuts to that program won't affect programs that shouldn't be cut. Again, I'm not complaining as I'm happy to be employed... I'm just saying you should look at the big picture.

Ps: all DoD members/employees pay taxes, so we're pulling our financial weight for this country just like the next guy...
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:47 AM   #85
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Here's a start on Wikipedia.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ures#section_1
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:50 AM   #86
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Here's SIPRI data that rolls up current spending for Afghanistan and other OCOs on top of the base budget. Still under 5%

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:41 PM   #87
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Obama signs a bill to begin sequester cuts

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/...ry?id=18628023

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March 1, 2013

President Obama and congressional leaders today failed to reach a breakthrough to avert a sweeping package of automatic spending cuts, setting into motion $85 billion of across-the-board belt-tightening that neither had wanted to see.

President Obama officially initiated the cuts with an order to agencies Friday evening.

He had met for just over an hour at the White House Friday morning with Republican leaders House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and his Democratic allies, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Vice President Joe Biden.

But the parties emerged from their first face-to-face meeting of the year resigned to see the cuts take hold at midnight.

"This is not a win for anybody," Obama lamented in a statement to reporters after the meeting. "This is a loss for the American people."

Officials have said the spending reductions immediately take effect Saturday but that the pain from reduced government services and furloughs of tens of thousands of federal employees would be felt gradually in the weeks ahead.

Federal agencies, including Homeland Security, the Pentagon, Internal Revenue Service and the Department of Education, have all prepared to notify employees that they will have to take one unpaid day off per week through the end of the year.

The staffing trims could slow many government services, including airport screenings, air traffic control, and law enforcement investigations and prosecutions. Spending on education programs and health services for low-income families will also get clipped.

"It is absolutely true that this is not going to precipitate the crisis" that would have been caused by the so-called fiscal cliff, Obama said. "But people are going to be hurt. The economy will not grow as quickly as it would have. Unemployment will not go down as quickly as it would have. And there are lives behind that. And it's real."

The sticking point in the debate over the automatic cuts -- known as sequester -- has remained the same between the parties for more than a year since the cuts were first proposed: whether to include more new tax revenue in a broad deficit reduction plan.

The White House insists there must be higher tax revenue, through elimination of tax loopholes and deductions that benefit wealthier Americans and corporations. Republicans seek an approach of spending cuts only, with an emphasis on entitlement programs. It's a deep divide that both sides have proven unable to bridge.

"This discussion about revenue, in my view, is over," Boehner told reporters after the meeting. "It's about taking on the spending problem here in Washington."

Boehner: No New Taxes to Avert Sequester

Boehner says any elimination of tax loopholes or deductions should be part of a broader tax code overhaul aimed at lowering rates overall, not to offset spending cuts in the sequester.

Obama countered today that he's willing to "take on the problem where it exists, on entitlements, and do some things that my own party doesn't like."

But he says Republicans must be willing to eliminate some tax loopholes as part of a deal.

"They refuse to budge on closing a single wasteful loophole to help reduce the deficit," Obama said. "We can and must replace these cuts with a more balanced approach that asks something from everybody."

Can anything more be done by either side to reach a middle ground?

The president today claimed he's done all he can. "I am not a dictator, I'm the president," Obama said.

"This idea that somehow there's a secret formula or secret sauce to get Speaker Boehner or Mitch McConnell to say, 'You know what, Mr. President, you're right; we should close some tax loopholes for the well-off and well-connected, in exchange for some serious entitlement reform and spending cuts in programs we don't need' -- you know, I think if there was a secret way to do that, I would have tried it," he said. "I would have done it."

Meanwhile, another deadline looms on the horizon: how to fund the federal government after March 27, or face a shutdown.

Both sides pledged to move ahead next week with plans to avert that possibility, even as the gridlock over the automatic spending cuts still stands.

"I'm hopeful that we won't have to deal with the threat of a government shutdown while we're dealing with the sequester at the same time," Boehner said.

"The House will act next week, and I hope the Senate will follow suit."
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:22 PM   #88
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omg we're increasing spending 2% less this year!!!!!
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:57 PM   #89
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Nothing personal with me, I actually said in this thread I'm happy to have a job, so I can't/won't really complain about it much. Again, we provide a service to the private sector, that the private sector does not provide. Flying units will cut back on training, aircraft and engine depot induction will be delayed (our AC are old), and construction plans are forced to be put on hold/cancelled. I agree some "fat" needs to be carved Zach, but just cause you hear some Airman you know talk about how bloated his program is doesn't mean cuts to that program won't affect programs that shouldn't be cut. Again, I'm not complaining as I'm happy to be employed... I'm just saying you should look at the big picture.

Ps: all DoD members/employees pay taxes, so we're pulling our financial weight for this country just like the next guy...
I'm looking at the big picture.

Not sure why the point of paying taxes came up.
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:02 PM   #90
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The Sequester ‘Crisis’ And What Should Be Done

Despite what the media and politicians would have us believe, the United States did not collapse last Friday when the package of spending reductions known as “sequestration” went into effect. The financial markets hardly blinked, as they have come to be more skeptical about these periodic government-hyped “crises.”

What had been portrayed as a drastic reduction in government spending was merely a decrease in the projected rate of increase in government spending over the next decade. Under sequestration, government spending increases by $2.4 trillion over the next 10 years rather than $2.5 trillion without it.

So we are speeding toward collapse at only 100 miles per hour instead of 110 miles per hour.

Some in Congress are using the panic over sequestration to justify another surrender of legislative authority to the executive branch. These members want to “pass the buck” on prioritizing federal programs by giving the president, cabinet officials, and high-level bureaucrats authority to set spending priorities. However, it is Congress’s job to set priorities in federal spending.

The drafters of the Constitution give the legislature the authority over spending because they recognized it was a threat to liberty to allow this power to be concentrated in the executive branch. Congress’s willingness to cede more authority to the executive should be opposed by everyone who values liberty and limited government.

Some of the loudest objections to sequestration have come from the champions of the military-industrial complex. Yet under sequestration defense spending will still increase by 18 percent over 10 years as opposed to 20 percent without sequestration.

There are claims that the military will face a one-time real reduction back to 2007 levels of spending, before beginning to climb again next year. That remains to be seen. However, few claimed at the time that 2007 levels of military spending, occurring as they did during the huge post 9/11 build-up, were inadequate.

But despite the fact that the US spends more on military than the rest of the world combined, we are told that even this modest, short-term reduction would be, in the words of outgoing Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, “shameful” and “irresponsible.” A return to 1980’s levels of military spending in real dollars – a time of significant military build-up – is considered outrageous even though the US faces no Soviet Union or equivalent threat.

In fact, the entire $1.2 trillion dollars that the sequester is supposed to save could be realized by cutting one unneeded, wasteful boondoggle: the $1.5 trillion F-35 fighter program. The F-35, billed as the next generation all-purpose military fighter and bomber, has been an unmitigated disaster. Its performances in recent tests have been so bad that the Pentagon has been forced to dumb-down the criteria. It is overweight, overpriced, and unwieldy. It is also an anachronism: we no longer face the real prospect of air-to-air combat in this era of 4th generation warfare. The World War II mid-air dogfight era is long over.

As defense analyst Winslow Wheeler wrote last year:

“It's time for Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, the U.S. military services, and Congress to face the facts: The F-35 is an unaffordable mediocrity, and the program will not be fixed by any combination of hardware tweaks or cost-control projects. There is only one thing to do with the F-35: Junk it.”

We should not look for cancellation of the F-35 program any time soon, however. The military industrial complex understands the political necessity of spreading its military Keynesianism as widely across Congressional districts as possible.

That is why F-35 manufacturer Lockheed-Martin can boast on its website that “the F-35 provides 127,000 direct and indirect jobs in 47 states and Puerto Rico.” What is unfortunately not understood is that these 127,000 workers would be far better utilized producing needed goods and services rather than treated as a jobs program disguised as national defense.

Despite the alarm over cuts that are not real cuts, it is clear that the US government is not serious at all about changing its ways. In a recent tour of the Middle East, newly-confirmed Secretary of State John Kerry announced that the US would be sending another $60 million to the rebels seeking to overthrow the Syrian government – in the midst of the sequester “crisis”!

Despite the rhetoric, there appears no intention on the part of the government to take our fiscal crisis seriously or abandon the idea that we should run the rest of the world.

-Ron Paul
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:22 PM   #91
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They'd save all the budget cuts from happening in key areas if they ended the absolutely useless and fruitless war on drugs.
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:08 PM   #92
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They'd save all the budget cuts from happening in key areas if they ended the absolutely useless and fruitless war on drugs.
+1 true story
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:29 PM   #93
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Ron Paul Sucks.
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:37 PM   #94
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Ron Paul Sucks.
What politician doesn't?
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:34 PM   #95
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What politician doesn't?
Well played.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:29 AM   #96
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They have.



Not saying they should be immune from cuts, but they've already taken a reduction.
So guess you have to take a little more. Welcome to the real world.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:17 PM   #97
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They'd save all the budget cuts from happening in key areas if they ended the absolutely useless and fruitless war on drugs.
Or Obama's golf excursions and Michelle's vacations. Not that I'm suggesting we deny them their leisure time heaven forbid.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:23 PM   #98
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Or Obama's golf excursions and Michelle's vacations. Not that I'm suggesting we deny them their leisure time heaven forbid.
It's fun to focus on expenditures that are nothing new to the office of the POTUS, and that account for fractions of FRACTIONS of a percent compared to the total federal outlays.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:27 PM   #99
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It's fun to focus on expenditures that are nothing new to the office of the POTUS, and that account for fractions of FRACTIONS of a percent compared to the total federal outlays.
President's have it better now than they did 100 years ago.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:27 PM   #100
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President's have it better now than they did 100 years ago.
As does everyone else.
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