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Old 03-04-2013, 08:54 PM   #41
gselsidi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Suggest you read this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=967204

You are going about things a bit unusual in my opinion.

INPA will not give you the info or tools you really need in my opinion.

You need something to be able log and graph with.

This thread will show you how you may have to attack your issue, assuming you determine your data is in fact accurate.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...light=monitors
I just went for INPA because I heard everyone mention it lol, didn't know that it couldn't graph. Do you know if I can use my K+DCAN cable with PA soft? PA soft can run real data correct?

Last edited by gselsidi; 03-04-2013 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:26 PM   #42
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PA Soft cannot use the INPA cable.

You need to spend money to sort your issue, trying to go on the cheap will leave you at a loss to what is going on.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 03-04-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:34 PM   #43
gselsidi
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
PA Soft cannot use the INPA cable.

You need to spend money to sort your issue, trying to go on the cheap will leave you at a loss to what is going on.
how am I cheaping? Spend $35 for the cable lol, will just return it and get a cable for pa soft, is there a cable or Bluetooth dongle that I can use both pa soft and the torque app?

Last edited by gselsidi; 03-04-2013 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:04 PM   #44
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Read my software post, do your research.

You are going no where with your approach.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 03-04-2013 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:05 PM   #45
wildirish317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
Long story short replaced my thermostat now I went from 20mpg to 25mpg,
Quote:
Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
Also, everyone please stop with your comments about MPG I asked how I can diagnose my fuel system, oxygen sensors, ect. not to get an opinion if my mpg is good or not.
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Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
When plenty of people have posted highway numbers in the 30s at a much higher speed then i drive at.
First, let me appologize for my first post on this thread. I really didn't understand the concern for MPG, but I didn't need to be that flippant.

The most interesting thing is that you went from 20 to 25 mpg just by replacing your thermostat. Do you make a lot of short drives, or long drives? I have a 15 mile commute to work, 10 of which is expressway, which I typically drive 65 mph (3,000 rpm). The other 5 is 35 mph stop and go. It takes 20 minutes. I would suspect thermostat failure to impact cold engine mpg more than hot engine mpg, but I could be wrong.

As far as the actual gas mileage, do you calculate it on a tank by tank basis, or are you keeping a running total miles divided by total gallons? The more miles and gallons you throw into the calculation, the more acurate the number. I track mine every year; a year's worth of mileage divided by a year's worth of gas. Of course, this also levels out the high mpg of long highway trips with the balance of long stop and go stints, but I'm more concerned with how much money I should budget for gas every year, and this gives me a consistent number.

If you are interested in making changes, and seeing how they affect your mpg, I would suggest a rolling 3-tank average for mpg. This will give you reasonable accuracy and still provide an indication of improvement. Three values above (or below) average indicate a change.

Lastly, regarding people's claim of their mpg, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. I've seen outrages claims on this forum for mpg, hp, and income. I get (currently) 23.95 mpg. Under the same conditions, my 4 cylinder Passat got about 27 mpg. That's really all I have for comparison, and I'm more than happy to give up 3 mpg for the performance.

I know this doesn't answer your question about changes you can make to your car to improve mpg, but hopefully I've provided some ideas about tracking the changes you do make.
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Last edited by wildirish317; 03-05-2013 at 06:50 AM. Reason: subtraction error
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:18 PM   #46
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Read my software post, do your research.

You are going no where with your approach.
I'm reading it just confused on what to get still you have like 5 different ones mentioned. Do I really need something BMW specific to help that's why im leaning toward pa soft.

On the other hand I like torque option as I can do it all on my phone instead carrying my laptop with me.

What is your recommendation out of all the things you mentioned, excluding INPA.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:27 PM   #47
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First, let me appologize for my first post on this thread. I really didn't understand the concern for MPG, but I didn't need to be that flippant.

The most interesting thing is that you went from 20 to 25 mpg just by replacing your thermostat. Do you make a lot of short drives, or long drives? I have a 15 mile commute to work, 10 of which is expressway, which I typically drive 65 mph (3,000 rpm). The other 5 is 35 mph stop and go. It takes 20 minutes. I would suspect thermostat failure to impact cold engine mpg more than hot engine mpg, but I could be wrong.

As far as the actual gas mileage, do you calculate it on a tank by tank basis, or are you keeping a running total miles divided by total gallons? The more miles and gallons you throw into the calculation, the more acurate the number. I track mine every year; a year's worth of mileage divided by a year's worth of gas. Of course, this also levels out the high mpg of long highway trips with the balance of long stop and go stints, but I'm more concerned with how much money I should budget for gas every year, and this gives me a consistent number.

If you are interested in making changes, and seeing how they affect your mpg, I would suggest a rolling 3-tank average for mpg. This will give you reasonable accuracy and still provide an indication of improvement. Three values above (or below) average indicate a change.

Lastly, regarding people's claim of their mpg, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. I've seen outrages claims on this forum for mpg, hp, and income. I get (currently) 23.95 mpg. Under the same conditions, my 4 cylinder Passat got about 27 mpg. That's really all I have for comparison, and I'm more than happy to give up 2 mpg for the performance.

I know this doesn't answer your question about changes you can make to your car to improve mpg, but hopefully I've provided some ideas about tracking the changes you do make.
Again I went from 20 to 25mpg using neutral, so in reality I probably went 20 to 22-23mpg. On the highway before the thermostat change my car wouldn't get warmer then 77C, so I could see it effecting mpg by a significant amount.

Yeah I track tank per tank, or half a tank, or a 1/4 of a tank depending on what I'm trying to measure, if I'm measuring a specific route ect.

But all my calculations are manual, besides the instant consumption which showed me some crazy numbers on the highway that's why I don't understand how that thing is so off. The reason I believe the 30mpg+ claims is the instant shows me between 35-50mpg on the highway.

Also for every car I've owned I've been able to get around 10-15% better on the old EPA estimates. The old estimates for this car are 27mpg highway, so 30 in my mind is def. achievable of course with my speed of 55mph tops.

I just have a strong feeling that something isn't right, I could understand if I drove the car hard, or drove 65-80mph to get those numbers.

I just ran a 1/4 tank of gas only city driving and I'm avg around 10mpg!

I'm getting some software to read graphs and data we'll see what shows up.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:52 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
Again I went from 20 to 25mpg using neutral, so in reality I probably went 20 to 22-23mpg. On the highway before the thermostat change my car wouldn't get warmer then 77C, so I could see it effecting mpg by a significant amount.

Yeah I track tank per tank, or half a tank, or a 1/4 of a tank depending on what I'm trying to measure, if I'm measuring a specific route ect.

But all my calculations are manual, besides the instant consumption which showed me some crazy numbers on the highway that's why I don't understand how that thing is so off. The reason I believe the 30mpg+ claims is the instant shows me between 35-50mpg on the highway.

Also for every car I've owned I've been able to get around 10-15% better on the old EPA estimates. The old estimates for this car are 27mpg highway, so 30 in my mind is def. achievable of course with my speed of 55mph tops.

I just have a strong feeling that something isn't right, I could understand if I drove the car hard, or drove 65-80mph to get those numbers.

I just ran a 1/4 tank of gas only city driving and I'm avg around 10mpg!

I'm getting some software to read graphs and data we'll see what shows up.
Why are you talking about the instant MPG gauge? Using it as a measuring instrument is pretty useless.

You simply can not calculate fuel consumption accurately from 1/4 tank of gas.

This info may help you, I documented it not too long ago.
http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=926447

I really don't think you have an issue if you're doing 25 MPG combined. That's what I normally do in my car.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:20 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
Again I went from 20 to 25mpg using neutral, so in reality I probably went 20 to 22-23mpg. On the highway before the thermostat change my car wouldn't get warmer then 77C, so I could see it effecting mpg by a significant amount.

Yeah I track tank per tank, or half a tank, or a 1/4 of a tank depending on what I'm trying to measure, if I'm measuring a specific route ect.

But all my calculations are manual, besides the instant consumption which showed me some crazy numbers on the highway that's why I don't understand how that thing is so off. The reason I believe the 30mpg+ claims is the instant shows me between 35-50mpg on the highway.

Also for every car I've owned I've been able to get around 10-15% better on the old EPA estimates. The old estimates for this car are 27mpg highway, so 30 in my mind is def. achievable of course with my speed of 55mph tops.

I just have a strong feeling that something isn't right, I could understand if I drove the car hard, or drove 65-80mph to get those numbers.

I just ran a 1/4 tank of gas only city driving and I'm avg around 10mpg!

I'm getting some software to read graphs and data we'll see what shows up.
How did you calculate your mpg on just 1/4 tank? Using the OBC? How many miles did you drive? Don't forget, when you're at a stop light, you're getting 0 mpg. What kind of weather are you experiencing? Winter weather will affect mpg. Are you running the A/C to keep the windows defrosted? I don't recall but have you confirmed your thermostat is working correctly, getting up to the mid 90sC? Personally, absent any issues that haven't been brought up, I think it may be your driving style. 25 mpg on a tank of gas is pretty good for the M56; right where it should be.

In reading this thread, we get the impression that you're taking snapshots of mpg performance without any tracking. I keep meticulous track of mpg on both my vehicles; on every tank. It's one of the ways I keep an eye on how they are performing. Plus it's easy to do since I can enter the info using an app on my iPhone.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:21 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by fiveightandten View Post
Why are you talking about the instant MPG gauge? Using it as a measuring instrument is pretty useless.

You simply can not calculate fuel consumption accurately from 1/4 tank of gas.

This info may help you, I documented it not too long ago.
http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=926447

I really don't think you have an issue if you're doing 25 MPG combined. That's what I normally do in my car.
I'm doing 25mpg with 95% highway, not combined. How can you say 25mpg is normal, when in your own thread you talk about some trips to red line, and avg speed of 75mph, when I never rip my car or go above 55mph.


Am I missing the disconnect here? And If I'm doing only city driving I can get a pretty good average out of 1/4mile, since it's not mixed.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:23 PM   #51
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How did you calculate your mpg on just 1/4 tank? Using the OBC? How many miles did you drive? Don't forget, when you're at a stop light, you're getting 0 mpg. What kind of weather are you experiencing? Winter weather will affect mpg. Are you running the A/C to keep the windows defrosted? I don't recall but have you confirmed your thermostat is working correctly, getting up to the mid 90sC? Personally, absent any issues that haven't been brought up, I think it may be your driving style. 25 mpg on a tank of gas is pretty good for the M56; right where it should be.

In reading this thread, we get the impression that you're taking snapshots of mpg performance without any tracking. I keep meticulous track of mpg on both my vehicles; on every tank. It's one of the ways I keep an eye on how they are performing. Plus it's easy to do since I can enter the info using an app on my iPhone.
My thermostat gets to 95C, I only used a 1/4 of a tank to calculate the city driving I did which consumed a quarter of a tank. I manually calculate it. Other times I run a whole tank. The AC is not on.

My driving style of driving like a grandmother is negatively affecting my mileage?
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:28 PM   #52
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My thermostat gets to 95C, I only used a 1/4 of a tank to calculate the city driving I did which consumed a quarter of a tank. I manually calculate it. Other times I run a whole tank. The AC is not on.

My driving style of driving like a grandmother is negatively affecting my mileage?
No that driving style would help your mpg. Any other symptoms of poor performance? Any smoke from the tailpipes? What was your result of using the OBC to track fuel levels in your tank? Sounds like the gas is going somewhere, as if someone is stealing it. Garaged or parked outside?
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:31 PM   #53
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I just used the tank level options 6.1. My question is what is 6.2 I know it tells you if your sensors are working depending on the number shown such as 1,2,3 but it also says Tank. Does it also calculate the fuel left in your tank like 6.1? Problem with 6.1 is it fluctuates is this normal? Here are the numbers for both will check again tomorrow when I leave. 6.2 - " Indicated value and tank phase 1- both sensors ok 2- one sensor fault 3 implausible input " Does tank phase mean fuel left also?

6.1 - 412 avg
6.2 - 423 Option 1 all sensors working properly

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Old 03-04-2013, 11:32 PM   #54
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No that driving style would help your mpg. Any other symptoms of poor performance? Any smoke from the tailpipes? What was your result of using the OBC to track fuel levels in your tank? Sounds like the gas is going somewhere, as if someone is stealing it. Garaged or parked outside?
parked in a building garage no one is stealing it lol. Unless they like to steal 1/10th of a gallon just to make my gauge move 1MM to the left.

Yeah I just posted them now will check again tomo.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:05 AM   #55
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The problem with measuring mpg on 1/4 tank is the error in filling the tank. To calculate mpg, you first fill your tank, then drive, then fill your tank. The two numbers used in the equation are miles driven and gallons used. Miles driven is pretty accurate. Gallons used depends on what "full" actually is. There will be a slightly different "full" level each time you fill up, due to the shut off system of the pump, the levelness of your car, etc.

Let's say your actual mpg is 25. You fill your tank up, drive 100 miles, then fill it up again. If you put in 3.8 gallons, you calculate 26.3 mpg. If you put in 4.2 gallons, you calculate 23.8 mpg. Contrast this with driving 400 miles. If you put in 15.8 gallons, you calculate 25.3 mpg, and if you put in 16.2 gallons, you calculate 24.7 mpg. Essentially, your margin of error on 1/4 tank is 4 times greater than a full tank. That's why I suggest using a three-tank rolling average - each time you fill up, caculate your mpg based on the last three tanks of gas.

Your actual mpg is based on the engine efficiency, rolling resistance, wind resistance, and driving style.

Modern computer controlled engines are more efficient because they can advance/retard ignition along with camshaft timing to provide the most optimum conditions for the engine load and rpm. The other factor is the hp curve of the engine itself. M3s do not get as good mpg as non-M3s because they are 300 hp engines producing a 150 hp load (or less) under most conditions. The lower percentage of total hp you are operating, the less efficient the engine is. Where a 300 hp engine operating at 150 hp is at 50% load, a 200 hp engine would be at 75% load. I would suggest a simple diagnostic tool like PA Soft 1.4 to check engine codes. If the DME is not throwing codes, you can assume (for now, there's always exceptions) that your engine is okay.

I would suggest you look at your rolling resistance. Check/replace your wheel bearings and make sure your brake calipers are completely releasing and not causing undue drag on the car. After driving 15+ miles, stop and feel your calipers. If one is hotter than the others, it may be the culprit. What tires are you using? How do they compare with others in terms of rolling resistance? There is a trade off among tires - low rolling resistance vs. high performance.

Someone mentioned it already, but do you have any wings or after-market air dams on the car that would increase wind resistance?

If all of that checks out, start replacing all of the plastic and rubber emission control components that get brittle, crack, and leak over time. Follow the path of air to the engine and make sure everything is clean and air tight. If you don't know how many miles are on your spark plugs, replace them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Miller
I just don't know what I'd do with 560 hp that doesn't involve getting arrested.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:39 AM   #56
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Hello,

Long story short replaced my thermostat now I went from 20mpg to 25mpg, 90% all highway!! still very low with my driving habit and calculations.
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Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
Again I went from 20 to 25mpg using neutral, so in reality I probably went 20 to 22-23mpg. On the highway before the thermostat change my car wouldn't get warmer then 77C, so I could see it effecting mpg by a significant amount.

Yeah I track tank per tank, or half a tank, or a 1/4 of a tank depending on what I'm trying to measure, if I'm measuring a specific route ect.

But all my calculations are manual, besides the instant consumption which showed me some crazy numbers on the highway that's why I don't understand how that thing is so off. The reason I believe the 30mpg+ claims is the instant shows me between 35-50mpg on the highway......I just ran a 1/4 tank of gas only city driving and I'm avg around 10mpg!
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Originally Posted by gselsidi View Post
My thermostat gets to 95C, I only used a 1/4 of a tank to calculate the city driving I did which consumed a quarter of a tank. I manually calculate it. Other times I run a whole tank. The AC is not on.
Okay, I'm a little confused so bear with me while I ask what may seem like some silly questions.

You mentioned that your MPG increased due to changing your thermostat (which makes sense since you were only achieving 77C). Yet later, you say your MPG went up due to using neutral?

You also say you calculate MPG manually but you've never shared how many miles you drive vs how many gallons of fuel you've consumed. My assumption is if you used 1/4 tank in city driving and only achieved 10 mpg, you drove only about 40 miles (40 miles/4 gallons). What was your average MPH? The more detail you share, the better help/advice you can get.

What are your weather conditions? The winter is the worst time to try and achieve your best MPG. You live in the Northeast which has been experiencing some wild weather this year. When it's cold out, do you "warm-up" in the morning before driving off or do you just start and go?

We have no idea if you're throwing any codes or not. This is a must. You suspect your pre-cat O2 sensor (which would affect your MPG) so that is a good guess. But unless you find out if it's throwing a code or not, you really don't know. Are there any auto part stores you can go to to get the codes read?

Please remind me of your set up; auto or manual?

Also, don't pay any attention to MPG claims from anyone who has a 330 or M3. Their MPG should naturally be a little less.

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Old 03-05-2013, 11:09 AM   #57
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There are no codes. Tires have low rolling Resistance as they are not new and worn about 50%. The last owner told me he put new spark plugs, but when i get sometime I'm going to check them again. Yes on the 1/4 tank i got 40 miles avg speed of 25mph including the stop lights. If you take out the lights usually 30-40mph, short trips about 10mi.

I don't let my car warm up as it warms up faster driving. I never let my old one warm up either. One time though i warmed up my old car before driving and achieved the best mileage i had. Never really tried to duplicate it asi don't have time to wait 10min for it to warm up. I just ordered a adapter for torque

I have an Auto, seriously im not retarded i know how to calculate mpg i did it for 5 years straight with my old car. Weather is cold, i never noticed a huge difference in the mpg during summer or winter in my last car. Probably a less then 1mpg difference if that.

Will check tire pressure and calipers after i drive today.

Last edited by gselsidi; 03-05-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:27 AM   #58
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My car does 32MPG on the highway all day long with cruise set at 65-70 and with mixed driving I can do about 25-26MPG. I'm almost at 1/4 tank now and I have about 60-65 miles (not sure off the top of my head) on it since my fill-up yesterday. I always use Shell or BP 93 gas. Nothing else.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:36 AM   #59
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My car does 32MPG on the highway all day long with cruise set at 65-70 and with mixed driving I can do about 25-26MPG. I'm almost at 1/4 tank now and I have about 60-65 miles (not sure off the top of my head) on it since my fill-up yesterday. I always use Shell or BP 93 gas. Nothing else.
Those sound normal. Can you do a test? If you can handle the slow speed drop your speed to 55mph and post your mpg.

Thanks
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:40 AM   #60
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Those sound normal. Can you do a test? If you can handle the slow speed drop your speed to 55mph and post your mpg.

Thanks
When I had the car set at 55 or 60MPH, it does about 34MPG but you basically can't touch the throttle at all and have to be a perfect driver. I did that once but it got boring so I went back up to 62MPH. I go by the dash read-out and I calculated it to be off by no more than 1MPG on my car.
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