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Political Talk
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:50 PM   #21
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Intelligence inequality in America, contributes to wealth inequality in America.
This... not to mention work ethic inequality.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:51 PM   #22
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Good things come to those who work. Anyone with enough ambition and desire to have wealth will get it.
Thats the problem. No one wants to work for it anymore.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:52 PM   #23
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This... not to mention work ethic inequality.
BRB, going to take my union mandated 2 hour mid-day break.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:57 PM   #24
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Thats the problem. No one wants to work for it anymore.
sweeping statement is sweeping.

no one, eh?
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:57 PM   #25
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I guess we disagree then. Everything you posted is just a symptom, not the cause (the disease.)

Responsible people (like me) didn't buy 3 houses when they couldn't afford one. However, they did because they "could." This societal rot is the PROBLEM.

Decreasing taxes is never wrong. The government grew out of control and is constrained by nothing. When we couldn't print money, the government can't just print and keep on growing. The government should fit revenue, not vice versa. A government that is constrained by nothing will NEVER be paid for with tax revenue.

Market uncertainty is a PC word for market regulation and manipulation. I didn't hear too many people crying that their 401Ks were doubling every few years.

Media...no argument there, but this goes back to my first point....they cater to the irresponsible masses.
As a senior Econ major, market uncertainty is definitely a factor. Government allowing banks to pretty much do as they please, expecting them to not be dumb enough to bankrupt themselves is also definitely a factor. Glass Stegal Act helped too.

Lower taxes has zero influence on market production, same with increasing money supply. However, market productivity is a main factor in our economic equilibrium. To increase production, you must do things like invest in technology and education, which we are currently trying to do. Increasing money supply only increases aggregate demand and price, same for decreasing taxes.

Increasing taxes and making sure the class with the highest marginal propensity to purchase is how you get out of it. When I get home I'll post a link showing the economy when taxes were highest, we were highly performing.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:00 PM   #26
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sweeping statement is sweeping.

no one, eh?
Almost the majority. Once the scales tip, it will be VERY hard to bring them back.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:11 PM   #27
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In fact, although correlation is not causation, when you compare economic growth in periods with declining tax rates versus periods with high tax rates, there seems to be evidence that tax cuts might hurt growth. But we'll leave that possibility for another day.
One thing that tax cuts do unequivocally do--at least tax cuts for the highest earners--is increase economic inequality. Given that economic inequality is one of the biggest problems we face in this country right now, this conclusion is very important.

http://www.businessinsider.com/histo...x-rates-2012-5

http://www.businessinsider.com/study...-growth-2012-9

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Old 03-05-2013, 07:12 PM   #28
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Almost the majority. Once the scales tip, it will be VERY hard to bring them back.
Are basing this on you empirical research on the subject, or are you just speaking outta your ass again?
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #29
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Are basing this on you empirical research on the subject, or are you just speaking outta your ass again?
No, just using facts and figures that don't align with your personal opinion.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:16 PM   #30
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Question, did everything else remain exactly the same that you can attribute the growth/recession solely to taxes?
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:17 PM   #31
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No, just using facts and figures that don't align with your personal opinion.
well please present your factual evidence so that everyone may be enlightened.

It sounds like you are trying pass your opinion off as fact.

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Old 03-05-2013, 07:18 PM   #32
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No, just using facts and figures that don't align with your personal opinion.
And these facts come from where that were put together be who that perhaps were done objectivity or not by supposedly a credentialed individual?

Just asking

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Old 03-05-2013, 07:18 PM   #33
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Question, did everything else remain exactly the same that you can attribute the growth/recession solely to taxes?
I didn't attribute the decline to only taxes, just pointed out that decreasing taxes does not lead to a better economy, like you previously said. It leads to more spending, but more spending doesn't mean anything in the long run model of an economy. More spending just equals higher demand, and higher price equilibrium.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:38 PM   #34
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I didn't attribute the decline to only taxes, just pointed out that decreasing taxes does not lead to a better economy, like you previously said. It leads to more spending, but more spending doesn't mean anything in the long run model of an economy. More spending just equals higher demand, and higher price equilibrium.
I don't see where you get the "more spending equals higher demand." There is never a higher demand from the government. As for the decreasing taxes doesn't lead to a better economy, there is no evidence to support that since that evidence can't be obtained. Common sense tells us that lower taxes aka leaving people alone will let me keep more of what they make. These charts and graphs are meaningless, since we can both admit there is 1001 other variables responsible for growth/recession.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:41 PM   #35
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And these facts come from where that were put together be who that perhaps were done objectivity or not by supposedly a credentialed individual?

Just asking
Fair enough. You can research the numbers on your own...lets start with an easy one...how many people in the US are currently receiving means tested entitlements?
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:43 PM   #36
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No, just using facts and figures that don't align with your personal opinion.
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These charts and graphs are meaningless, since we can both admit there is 1001 other variables responsible for growth/recession.



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Old 03-05-2013, 07:44 PM   #37
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I don't see where you get the "more spending equals higher demand." There is never a higher demand from the government.
More government spending equals more money in the market, equals more demand for product, but also means the prices can change and even turn to inflation. Right now the government has increased spending, but only for a short term, because in the long run we could hurt ourselves. The fed has been dumping 85 billion a month on bonds to stimulate the economy, but it wont last long. These low interest rates don't come out of thin air, and the banks starting to lend for houses doesn't start from nowhere either. They're buying bonds and mortgages at a slow pace.

All of our funding during Bush was going to the War, instead of in our economy. Now we have to cut that spending on military back to normal, and invest in long term factors.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:44 PM   #38
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Fair enough. You can research the numbers on your own...lets start with an easy one...how many people in the US are currently receiving means tested entitlements?
No idea.

My point is simply that when presenting facts, one most consider the source, in addition to the bias, agenda, and ontology (view of the world) they present. I think it behooves one to look at a broad spectrum of sources ranging from liberal, moderate, conservative, and international perspectives. To often people will google a factoid, and if it aligns with their beliefs, discount everything else and use what agrees with them - otherwise known as confirmation bias. I think we're all guilty of this at times. "Truth" and "facts" is sometimes hard to discern, especially with all the garbage out there. Truth and facts also vary by a way a person perceives things and their own experiences.

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Old 03-05-2013, 07:53 PM   #39
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So many hilarious generalizations in this thread.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:58 PM   #40
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I don't see where you get the "more spending equals higher demand." There is never a higher demand from the government. As for the decreasing taxes doesn't lead to a better economy, there is no evidence to support that since that evidence can't be obtained. Common sense tells us that lower taxes aka leaving people alone will let me keep more of what they make. These charts and graphs are meaningless, since we can both admit there is 1001 other variables responsible for growth/recession.
Man, it's like reading Fox.

First, yes there is evidence showing tax doesn't change market productivity, it's called a 4 quadrant analysis. If you seriously think lowering taxes and 'leaving people alone' will increase the economy, you couldn't be any further from the truth.

The USA is the highest consuming country in the world. The MPC(Marginal propensity to consume) as a nation went over 1.00 in the last decade. Having a high MPC can be good, but if it goes over 1.00, it isn't. However, having one too close to 1 could result in drastic changes if the right factors happen. The MPC multiplier is 1/1-mpc. You use that number to find economic output. So if it's 1, it would be 1/1-1, which equals zero. A 0.8 MPC multiplier would be 5, so you multiply whatever economic change( e.g. tax increase), and you can calculate the increased output. If it goes above one, it has a negative effect on production.

My point with this, is guess what classes have the highest MPC? Lower class and Middle class. The Lower class has a lower chance of saving money, which is useless generally to economic productivity. So "leaving people be" would only pad their (people with lowest MPC) pockets, not the entire country's.
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