E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-05-2013, 08:00 PM   #41
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 893
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
Reading comprehension eludes you. Those posts were talking about two completely different things.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:01 PM   #42
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Reading comprehension eludes you. Those posts were talking about two completely different things.
oh really? Comprehension eludes me? Or maybe I was just joking around

Last edited by MDydinanM; 03-05-2013 at 08:05 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:02 PM   #43
NaZty NaZe One!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 900
My Ride: 02' 330ci "Ebony"
Send a message via AIM to NaZty NaZe One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000beamer View Post
Good things come to those who work. Anyone with enough ambition and desire to have wealth will get it.
Protestant work ethic is a myth.
__________________
Photobucket
NaZty NaZe One! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:04 PM   #44
Raymond42262
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The South
Posts: 453
My Ride: Is German
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000beamer View Post
Good things come to those who work. Anyone with enough ambition and desire to have wealth will get it.
__________________
"The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, someone to love, and something to hope for."....Joseph Addison
--------------------
Raymond42262 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:04 PM   #45
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 893
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
No idea.

My point is simply that when presenting facts, one most consider the source, in addition to the bias, agenda, and ontology (view of the world) they present. I think it behooves one to look at a broad spectrum of sources ranging from liberal, moderate, conservative, and international perspectives. To often people will google a factoid, and if it aligns with their beliefs, discount everything else and use what agrees with them - otherwise known as confirmation bias. I think we're all guilty of this at times. "Truth" and "facts" is sometimes hard to discern, especially with all the garbage out there. Truth and facts also vary by a way a person perceives things and their own experiences.
I am not in government, so my sources are rather limited.
Take this one for instance....









I believe this chart is households, not people. I am aware that some of those are retirees, etc, but that doesn't change the point, that these are people without any real skin in the same.

Is my source wrong? Maybe it is. I got it from the Washington Post. I posted a similar one in another thread from CNN.
__________________

Last edited by NFRs2000nyc; 03-05-2013 at 08:06 PM.
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:09 PM   #46
CollinsE90
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The bar
Posts: 340
My Ride: 330i
So 73% of Entitlement checks go to elderly, and disabled--not just discouraged workers. Did we forget about Baby Boomers?

edit: which is also a factor
__________________

Last edited by CollinsE90; 03-05-2013 at 08:10 PM.
CollinsE90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:10 PM   #47
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
seems to me the Baby Boomer generation is getting theirs... lol

Last edited by MDydinanM; 03-05-2013 at 08:10 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:11 PM   #48
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by CollinsE90 View Post
So 73% of Entitlement checks go to elderly, and disabled--not just discouraged workers. Did we forget about Baby Boomers?

edit: which is also a factor
not just discouraged workers eh? Man, Chase is going to be sooo disappointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
This... not to mention work ethic inequality.
yeah - F those old and elderly disabled people!

Last edited by MDydinanM; 03-05-2013 at 08:13 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:15 PM   #49
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 893
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
not just discouraged workers eh? Man, Chase is going to be sooo disappointed.



yeah - F those old and elderly disabled people!
The % is what matters, not the reason. No one is blaming the elderly, but they are still a bill (albeit a reasonably bill)....they need to be paid. That starts a chain reaction that leads to the bold.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:18 PM   #50
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
The % is what matters, not the reason. No one is blaming the elderly, but they are still a bill (albeit a reasonably bill)....they need to be paid. That starts a chain reaction that leads to the bold.
in all seriousness though, something has got to give. Our Govt has to take a hard look at spending and figure out what is important and what isn't. Same goes for entitlement reform.

As someone alluded to earlier (or in another thread), America's population is growing and as seen above, getting older. I don't know if the Govt support structure, financially, is keeping pace.

Last edited by MDydinanM; 03-05-2013 at 08:19 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:20 PM   #51
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 893
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
in all seriousness though, something has got to give. Our Govt has to take a hard look at spending and figure out what is important and what isn't. Same goes for entitlement reform.

As someone alluded to early, America's population is growing. I don't know if the Govt support structure, financially, is keeping pace.
I agree, but when you read about the amount of government waste (like the USDA wine festival event) you start to undertand that they are just playing politics and are not interested in solving a damn thing. I wouldn't be surprised if the government literally wastes 1 trillion a year. The government support structure shouldn't keep pace, it should be reformed and most phased out. Those currently dependent on it (seniors and vets) should get theirs, but everyone else, it gets phased. Put expiration dates on all benefits. Start cutting them. Start controlling them. Start controlling fraud. Start controlling the qualifications. Our disability rate is skyrocketing. There is no reason why a country like this should have these types of problems, and a government that is unrestrained.
__________________

Last edited by NFRs2000nyc; 03-05-2013 at 08:23 PM.
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:20 PM   #52
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,025
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
not just discouraged workers eh? Man, Chase is going to be sooo disappointed.

yeah - F those old and elderly disabled people!
Playbook of the big government types... when presented with a statistic they don't like (chronically unemployed for example), twist the discussion to "the elderly" (or some other group that helps compose of the larger issue) and label the conservative a jerk.

We have a SERIOUS issue with entitlement here in the US. It is RAMPANT amongst the youth of this nation and if you don't see that, then there is no use conversing further.

FWIW, I love how there is no mention of wealth inequality, in relation to standard of living, in comparison to other nations... we are SOOOOO far above and beyond most of the world. Don't compare us to paradise.. compare us to the norm. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
Wrapping an E46 in Vinyl : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=bronze

Last edited by 2000_328CI; 03-05-2013 at 08:21 PM.
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:22 PM   #53
CollinsE90
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The bar
Posts: 340
My Ride: 330i
If we don't pay those checks to the elderly, the country as a whole will completely lose faith in Social Security, even though most already do, it doesn't stop them from paying taxes for it.

The common misconception is less taxes to the rich equals more jobs. No, less taxes means a couple more jobs, and more cash in their bank. Hence why they go all out to preserve it. No one was mad when the internet blew up the economy, when taxes were pretty high. People only care when they physically see it on their check, until then, let the government do what they want.
__________________
CollinsE90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:23 PM   #54
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 817
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
Playbook of the big government types... when presented with a statistic they don't like (chronically unemployed for example), twist the discussion to "the elderly" (or some other group that helps compose of the larger issue) and label the conservative a jerk.

We have a SERIOUS issue with entitlement here in the US. It is RAMPANT amongst the youth of this nation and if you don't see that, then there is no use conversing further.
Yawn....I see it far more among the typical republican party cheerleaders around here than I do the moderate posters.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:24 PM   #55
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,025
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
Yawn....I see it far more among the typical republican party cheerleaders around here than I do the moderate posters.
I hardly think it is fair to take a comment on "work ethic inequality" and immediately turn to "oh why do you hate on the elderly".
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
Wrapping an E46 in Vinyl : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=bronze
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:25 PM   #56
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
I agree, but when you read about the amount of government waste (like the USDA wine festival event) you start to undertand that they are just playing politics and are not interested in solving a damn thing. I wouldn't be surprised if the government literally wastes 1 trillion a year.
Oh I agree that we shouldn't have things like that. Same goes for the recent GSA scandal with outlandish spending in Las Vegas. Even more crazy is bundling up spending in a single bill - what do they call it? A pork barrel bill? Sad that politicians, in order to get a bill passed, sometimes have to appease other interested parties by putting XXXX in a bill for some silly funding that is probably wasteful just so a politician can tell their constituents they did something for their State, County, etc.

Last edited by MDydinanM; 03-05-2013 at 08:26 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:26 PM   #57
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 893
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by CollinsE90 View Post
If we don't pay those checks to the elderly, the country as a whole will completely lose faith in Social Security, even though most already do, it doesn't stop them from paying taxes for it.

The common misconception is less taxes to the rich equals more jobs. No, less taxes means a couple more jobs, and more cash in their bank. Hence why they go all out to preserve it. No one was mad when the internet blew up the economy, when taxes were pretty high. People only care when they physically see it on their check, until then, let the government do what they want.
We agree on that. We need to keep paying the bills we have, but we need to cut the future bills. SS is a failed system and needs to be phased out and replaced with something else (like mandatory Roth IRA or something...where YOU are the only one in control of that money). Something needs to be done. Scratching our nuts (politicians) crying outrage but doing diddly sh!t about it except huff and puff on the news isn't helping anyone. We need to control and RESTRAIN the government.

The government should not have the ability to do what they want, whether the people are watching or not.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:27 PM   #58
CollinsE90
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The bar
Posts: 340
My Ride: 330i
Also, I'm not against lowering taxes, because it can be done and succeed. Unfortunately, our economy isn't in a state where we can do both. We have to get back to equilibrium before we can do that. We just have to increase productivity before we can lower taxes, and hope the wealth inequality doesn't suffer too much.
__________________
CollinsE90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:31 PM   #59
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
Playbook of the big government types... when presented with a statistic they don't like (chronically unemployed for example), twist the discussion to "the elderly" (or some other group that helps compose of the larger issue) and label the conservative a jerk.

We have a SERIOUS issue with entitlement here in the US. It is RAMPANT amongst the youth of this nation and if you don't see that, then there is no use conversing further.

FWIW, I love how there is no mention of wealth inequality, in relation to standard of living, in comparison to other nations... we are SOOOOO far above and beyond most of the world. Don't compare us to paradise.. compare us to the norm. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
Did you even look at NFRsnyc2000's charts he linked in his prior post? A fellow conservative that shares the same views as you? He posted them from sources he deemed credible. http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=45

Chase, FWIW, you have a reputation for blaming the lazy and those without a strong work ethic. Heck, I even agree with you and I would prefer them to be like the rest of us. However, the statistics that NFRsnyc2000 is in contradiction to YOUR beliefs about entitlements going to the lazy. The charts show the majority is going to the elderly, disabled, and people over 65 (baby boomers?) - that is why I thought it was funny and made a joke.

So, to put it simply: Your statement of RAMPANT entitlement amongst the youth of this nation perhaps isn't as RAMPANT as it may seem. According to one chart - posted by your fellow conservative, 18% as opposed to ~73% going to the elderly and disabled. That's why I made the joke. And as far not liking the statistics in this case, what's not to like? How could I not like it? It proves you wrong. There is no reason to twist it. lol And another lol to you thinking I'm a fan of "big government".

Last edited by MDydinanM; 03-05-2013 at 09:02 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:31 PM   #60
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 817
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
We agree on that. We need to keep paying the bills we have, but we need to cut the future bills. SS is a failed system and needs to be phased out and replaced with something else (like mandatory Roth IRA or something...where YOU are the only one in control of that money). Something needs to be done. Scratching our nuts (politicians) crying outrage but doing diddly sh!t about it except huff and puff on the news isn't helping anyone. We need to control and RESTRAIN the government.

The government should not have the ability to do what they want, whether the people are watching or not.
It's far more realistic to see SS modified as opposed to done away with. Things like raising the NRA, limiting how many ex-spouses can get benefits, etc. would do wonders to help the program. Also, it's far from a "failed system."
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use