E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-05-2013, 08:35 PM   #61
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
Did you even look at NFRsnyc2000's charts he linked in his prior post? A fellow conservative that shares the same views as you? He posted them from sources he deemed credible. http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=45

Chase, FWIW, you have a reputation for blaming the lazy and those without a strong work ethic. Heck, I even agree with you and I would prefer them to be like the rest of us. However, the statistics that NFRsnyc2000 is in contradiction to YOUR beliefs about entitlements going to the lazy. The charts show the majority is going to the eldery, disabled, and people of 65 (baby boomers?) - that is why I thought it was funny and made a joke.
Well my sources (charts) seem to be based on US government statistics (unless the charts themselves are cooked) so I deemed them credible. There is still a VERY large number of people that fit into Chase's category though, even using my charts.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:36 PM   #62
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Well my sources (charts) seem to be based on US government statistics (unless the charts themselves are cooked) so I deemed them credible. There is still a VERY large number of people that fit into Chase's category though, even using my charts.
yeah, one chart shows 18% - as opposed to ~73% going to the disabled/elderly/people over 65

It's all right though, Chase's jimmies are rustled. mission accomplished

I want to see him when he's over 65 and complains about entitlement reform

Last edited by MDydinanM; 03-05-2013 at 08:40 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:36 PM   #63
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
It's far more realistic to see SS modified as opposed to done away with. Things like raising the NRA, limiting how many ex-spouses can get benefits, etc. would do wonders to help the program. Also, it's far from a "failed system."
The system is flawed for a few reasons.

1) Lets face it, it's a ponzi scheme, and relies on people to keep having babies AND working.

2) It's a program made to help those that can't save. Fine. No reason why the government should control that money. Have that money go into an account that people can't touch until retirement (similar to a roth.) The money can't be taxed and can't be spent or borrowed against. Having the government be able to dip into the cookie jar makes this system flawed beyond repair IMHO.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:37 PM   #64
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 511
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Well my sources (charts) seem to be based on US government statistics (unless the charts themselves are cooked) so I deemed them credible. There is still a VERY large number of people that fit into Chase's category though, even using my charts.
receiving government entitlements = lazy?
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:44 PM   #65
CollinsE90
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The bar
Posts: 340
My Ride: 330i
Believe it or not, paying Entitlement checks is cheaper than finding and maintaining jobs for unskilled labor. Reason being is the money we give them almost 90% of the time goes right back into the market. Yea, it looks bad when we cut the checks, but it actually helps us.

Last I saw the MPC is around 0.9, which is pretty good place.

See if I can make the MPC a little easier to understand (not talkiing sh1t, it took me a while, too)

If it's 0.9, it will be 1/1-.9----or 10. You multiply 10 times whatever you do (e.g. $1000 increase in government spending), will yield 10,000 more in production. If it's 0.99, it would be 1/0.01, or 100. So the people with the lowest MPC, do the least for productivity and vice versa. We won't it around 0.9, because if it's too high, a negative facto( e.g. $1000 decrease in GS)r could do way more damage because of the multiplier.

Edit: if it's 0.5 (someone with the ability to save half of their earnings) the multiplier is only 2.
__________________

Last edited by CollinsE90; 03-05-2013 at 08:51 PM.
CollinsE90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:44 PM   #66
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
receiving government entitlements = lazy?
Might as well throw in people who take a mortgage interest deduction, itemize their tax deductions and get muni bond income.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:46 PM   #67
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
Might as well throw in people who take a mortgage interest deduction, itemize their tax deductions and get muni bond income.
I think, in this thread, people need to define and differentiate between different types of government entitlements.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:46 PM   #68
Andy2108
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,037
My Ride: E46 M3, '67 Cobra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
Interesting presentation of perception vs reality.

The rest of the narration is filled with pretense and prejudice. Overall, it's a waste.
I agree. And may I add that I found the piano track to be quite sad.
__________________


De gustibus non est disputandum.
Andy2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:46 PM   #69
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
The system is flawed for a few reasons.

1) Lets face it, it's a ponzi scheme, and relies on people to keep having babies AND working.

2) It's a program made to help those that can't save. Fine. No reason why the government should control that money. Have that money go into an account that people can't touch until retirement (similar to a roth.) The money can't be taxed and can't be spent or borrowed against. Having the government be able to dip into the cookie jar makes this system flawed beyond repair IMHO.
It's not a ponzi scheme no matter how hard people try to draw parallels. Relating the two either shows ones lack of understanding about the two, or means they have some sort of political axe to grind....you can figure out which one you are.

You keep harping on what should be done in regards to private accounts and what not, but that's not reality, nor will it be for the foreseeable future.

Something that is feasible is not allowing politicians to dip their hands into the pot.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:22 PM   #70
mtgswede
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: IL
Posts: 25
My Ride: '13 335ixdriveMsport
Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcomes. Some people work harder. Some people are lucky. Some people are born into wealth. Some people start from nothing and build it themselves. Some people expect a handout. Some people are unlucky. Some people have a big butt and got famous making a sex tape. Etc etc etc. Capitalism has created more opportunity for more people than socialism ever has. Notice how communist and socialist countries have virtually no middle class. You have the political elite and the poor and that's about it. Why does anyone want that in the US?
mtgswede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:25 PM   #71
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtgswede View Post
Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcomes. Some people work harder. Some people are lucky. Some people are born into wealth. Some people start from nothing and build it themselves. Some people expect a handout. Some people are unlucky. Some people have a big butt and got famous making a sex tape. Etc etc etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mtgswede View Post
Capitalism has created more opportunity for more people than socialism ever has. Notice how communist and socialist countries have virtually no middle class. You have the political elite and the poor and that's about it. Why does anyone want that in the US?
Not arguing with you, but I don't think true communism has been practiced anywhere. It's usually been some modified form of it - almost quasi dictatorship in some cases (e.g. Stalin, Mao, etc)

Last edited by MDydinanM; 03-05-2013 at 09:25 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:27 PM   #72
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtgswede View Post
Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcomes. Some people work harder. Some people are lucky. Some people are born into wealth. Some people start from nothing and build it themselves. Some people expect a handout. Some people are unlucky. Some people have a big butt and got famous making a sex tape. Etc etc etc. Capitalism has created more opportunity for more people than socialism ever has. Notice how communist and socialist countries have virtually no middle class. You have the political elite and the poor and that's about it. Why does anyone want that in the US?
Who here is advocating for that?
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:27 PM   #73
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
receiving government entitlements = lazy?
Some people, absolutely. Are you implying that there are no able bodied non-veteran adults that are receiving entitlements?
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:29 PM   #74
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
It's not a ponzi scheme no matter how hard people try to draw parallels. Relating the two either shows ones lack of understanding about the two, or means they have some sort of political axe to grind....you can figure out which one you are.

You keep harping on what should be done in regards to private accounts and what not, but that's not reality, nor will it be for the foreseeable future.

Something that is feasible is not allowing politicians to dip their hands into the pot.
You are saying that my plan is not feasible but believe this is? C'mon man. Whos gonna stop them?
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:30 PM   #75
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
You are saying that my plan is not feasible but believe this is? C'mon man. Whos gonna stop them?
I view that as more realistic than creating private accounts, yes. Needless to say, neither of them are very probable.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:31 PM   #76
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 511
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Some people, absolutely. Are you implying that there are no able bodied non-veteran adults that are receiving entitlements?
I wasn't implying anything. You were:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Almost the majority. Once the scales tip, it will be VERY hard to bring them back.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:42 PM   #77
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
So many hilarious generalizations in this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
Who here is advocating for that?
Obama lol...was talking to a hardcore conservative at work today and he genuinely believes Obama will have a third term as president so he can continue to enact his social views. I was like da fuk?
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:49 PM   #78
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post




Obama lol...was talking to a hardcore conservative at work today and he genuinely believes Obama will have a third term as president so he can continue to enact his social views. I was like da fuk?
and


Party cheerleaders are hilarious people to have conversations with.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig

Last edited by evolved; 03-05-2013 at 09:50 PM.
evolved is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:53 PM   #79
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
and


Party cheerleaders are hilarious people to have conversations with.
People are batshit crazy in this country on both ends of the spectrum. I've run into my fair share of lefty nutcases too. I love the entertainment provided though. Remember the comments about your average American...
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 10:02 PM   #80
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
I view that as more realistic than creating private accounts, yes. Needless to say, neither of them are very probable.
That doesn't mean that private accounts aren't a better idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
Might as well throw in people who take a mortgage interest deduction, itemize their tax deductions and get muni bond income.
This is an illogical parallel to draw. Entitlements are something for nothing. Taking deductions are keeping more of what you earned. It is far more noble to work hard and keep more than to sit on your butt and collect...regardless of what the Marxists will have you believe.
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin

Last edited by Act of God; 03-05-2013 at 10:03 PM.
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use