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Old 03-11-2013, 01:13 PM   #21
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Here is a simple idea... allow individuals to opt out. Those that are fiscally responsible shouldn't re responsible for coddling those that blew their paychecks on cars and toys.
Because we all know people who blow their paychecks on cars and toys won't opt out in order to receive an even larger paycheck in which they can blow on cars and toys.

Fiscally responsible individuals are now on the hook for those peoples welfare checks.


Your simple idea doesn't work.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:14 PM   #22
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Here is a simple idea... allow individuals to opt out. Those that are fiscally responsible shouldn't re responsible for coddling those that blew their paychecks on cars and toys.
I find it odd that you automatically assume that people who don't have ample retirement funds blew it on cars and toys. It's gotta be exhausting to automatically assume the worst in people. It's also odd that you assume people who rely on SS were irresponsible in their earlier years.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:20 PM   #23
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I find it odd that you automatically assume that people who don't have ample retirement funds blew it on cars and toys. It's gotta be exhausting to automatically assume the worst in people. It's also odd that you assume people who rely on SS were irresponsible in their earlier years.
Whoa whoa.. I'm not implying that everyone relying on SS was irresponsible.. that isn't the case whatsoever. My comment is merely around the cap.

With SS, like MOST other government programs, I'm fine with paying more if it means we will help fight the deficit/counter a problem. The issue is that people will raise the cap on the rich, take more for SS, and then spend it on OTHER government programs.. which has been done over and over and over and over.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:30 PM   #24
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So what if somehow SS was made optional. What would happen to the SS system?

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Old 03-11-2013, 03:42 PM   #25
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So what if somehow SS was made optional. What would happen to the SS system?

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it would collapse, it only works if people that don't need it pay. It isn't meant to be cashed in on by design, the average life span was under 65 when they started it. The 65 retirement age was picked on purpose.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:47 PM   #26
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it would collapse, it only works if people that don't need it pay. It isn't meant to be cashed in on by design, the average life span was under 65 when they started it. The 65 retirement age was picked on purpose.
http://www.ssa.gov/history/lifeexpect.html


There's more to it than that. Mortality rates were low, on average, because infant mortality rates were awful. If a person in the 30's lived to be an adult they more often than not lived well past 65.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:51 PM   #27
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http://www.ssa.gov/history/lifeexpect.html


There's more to it than that. Mortality rates were low, on average, because infant mortality rates were awful. If a person in the 30's lived to be an adult they more often than not lived well past 65.
.gov

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Old 03-11-2013, 03:56 PM   #28
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.gov

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Old 03-11-2013, 04:46 PM   #29
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From an immediate actuarial perspective, Social Security is fine in the sense that it doesn't take much to plug the gap. You can raise the retirement age, adjust the COLA, or increase the payroll tax (where only half of the tax would be borne by the worker). Unlike Medicare, Social Security benefits grow at about CPI (slightly more, if you include the rare years where CPI is negative and the Federal government can't adjust the COLA downward due to political pressure), the real issue that's slowly killing the fiscal health of the SST are changing demographics. Life expectancies are increasing and if the workforce shrinks relative to the retiree pool, you get an increasingly poor fiscal outlook. But the demography crisis is still about 30 years down the road. That's essentially an eon in terms of the modern day political cycle.

On a side note, if you apply the Federal government's own standards on disparate impact analysis on Social Security, it would be considered an incredibly racist program because average life expectancy for blacks are 4 years lower than for whites. Given the fact that, if you retire at 65, the average American is expected to live long enough to draw about 13 years worth of benefits, 4 years is a lot. It effectively acts as a wealth transfer from poor blacks to richer whites. Raising the retirement age would only serve to make this disparity grow even larger.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:13 PM   #30
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From an immediate actuarial perspective, Social Security is fine in the sense that it doesn't take much to plug the gap. You can raise the retirement age, adjust the COLA, or increase the payroll tax (where only half of the tax would be borne by the worker). Unlike Medicare, Social Security benefits grow at about CPI (slightly more, if you include the rare years where CPI is negative and the Federal government can't adjust the COLA downward due to political pressure), the real issue that's slowly killing the fiscal health of the SST are changing demographics. Life expectancies are increasing and if the workforce shrinks relative to the retiree pool, you get an increasingly poor fiscal outlook. But the demography crisis is still about 30 years down the road. That's essentially an eon in terms of the modern day political cycle.

On a side note, if you apply the Federal government's own standards on disparate impact analysis on Social Security, it would be considered an incredibly racist program because average life expectancy for blacks are 4 years lower than for whites. Given the fact that, if you retire at 65, the average American is expected to live long enough to draw about 13 years worth of benefits, 4 years is a lot. It effectively acts as a wealth transfer from poor blacks to richer whites. Raising the retirement age would only serve to make this disparity grow even larger.
And you have to go the racist route.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:32 PM   #31
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And you have to go the racist route.
What about the other minorities? Latinos? Jews? GINGERS????? Surely the disparity among gingers is far greater than blacks since gingers have no soul so they can't possibly outlive any other group. Where is their justice?

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Old 03-11-2013, 07:13 PM   #32
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Nothing worse than disparate impact rationalizing by the government
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:05 PM   #33
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That's the general idea by raising the current cap amount.


The cap essentially means that higher-income individuals pay a smaller share of their income in Social Security taxes than middle-class employees. Including the employee and employer shares of Social Security and Medicare taxes, "earners in the middle fifth of the income distribution pay an average effective payroll tax of about 11 percent. In contrast, the top 1 percent of earners pay just 1.5 percent on average."



What is middle class? The top 10% household income is 100-149K which I find very low. Top 3% is 150-200K.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:06 PM   #34
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What is middle class? The top 10% household income is 100-149K which I find very low. Top 3% is 150-200K.
I'm sure the google can help you find that out. if I had to guess I would put the middle fifth of income earners somewhere around $60K.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:30 PM   #35
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I'm sure the google can help you find that out. if I had to guess I would put the middle fifth of income earners somewhere around $60K.
I think that middle class is also regionally dependent. 60k in Plano, Texas is a hell of a lot different than NYC.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:34 PM   #36
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I think that middle class is also regionally dependent. 60k in Plano, Texas is a hell of a lot different than NYC.
Correct. I'm talking about figures at a national level, not about NYC. Since we're talking about income and tax distribution that's all that really matters.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:51 PM   #37
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I'm sure the google can help you find that out. if I had to guess I would put the middle fifth of income earners somewhere around $60K.
45K is median income. Fvck that's low
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:21 PM   #38
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45K is median income. Fvck that's low
That's pretty low. That's significantly lower than what most engineers make right out of school.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:50 PM   #39
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Correct. I'm talking about figures at a national level, not about NYC. Since we're talking about income and tax distribution that's all that really matters.
Of course it matters, tax rates are set nationally. The people living in high COL areas (who aren't loaded) get hit the hardest. You have to also take into account how much people spend just to live when you are deciding what is 'fair'.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:44 AM   #40
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Of course it matters, tax rates are set nationally. The people living in high COL areas (who aren't loaded) get hit the hardest. You have to also take into account how much people spend just to live when you are deciding what is 'fair'.
Increasing the SS cap rate from ~$113K to $150K (just an arbitrary figure) will have zero effect on a person earning $60K regardless of their location, which is why I stated it didn't matter in this context.
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