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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 03-14-2013, 11:37 PM   #21
ImolaSix
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
With a 2.5L it might flow well enough to make some power at the upper revs. But you'll ultimately be making less power than a 330 with a lower rev limit
True but then you will run into problems with the hydraulic lifters.

My point is, if you want to make N/A power, go S54.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:42 PM   #22
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True but then you will run into problems with the hydraulic lifters.

My point is, if you want to make N/A power, go S54.
Which is why he was discussing solid lifters.

Herp a derp.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:00 AM   #23
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Which is why he was discussing solid lifters.

Herp a derp.
You're missing the point.

There's a lot more things he'd have to do besides upgrading to solid lifters. It's not cost effective to build an N/A M54. There are much better platforms to start with.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:03 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ImolaSix View Post
You're missing the point.

There's a lot more things he'd have to do besides upgrading to solid lifters. It's not cost effective to build an N/A M54. There are much better platforms to start with.
No I'm really not.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImolaSix View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraPhantm
With a 2.5L it might flow well enough to make some power at the upper revs. But you'll ultimately be making less power than a 330 with a lower rev limit
True but then you will run into problems with the hydraulic lifters.

My point is, if you want to make N/A power, go S54.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImolaSix View Post
You're missing the point.

There's a lot more things he'd have to do besides upgrading to solid lifters. It's not cost effective to build an N/A M54. There are much better platforms to start with.
I think Grande is simply pointing out the inconsistency there.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:45 PM   #26
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Unfortunatley Im still in highschool and dont have a whole ton of money to go out and buy an S54, 6 speed trans, clutch, rear subframe and diff AND the countless other stuff Im sure you'd need. AND my car is an xi, so Id have to swap out the front subframe. My engine is nearing the end of its life so Im building a new one with some slight upgrades that allow it to rev to 7000RPM and make ok power up there RELIABLY. ON THE CHEAP. 210 hp will make me happy. Im considering going with M52B28 internals (can be had for less than M54B30 internals also) in an M54 block so I dont have to deal with the b30s issues (would have to buy an ATI damper). All I have right now is a M54 head and the engine still in my car.
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Quote:
5TFUUU, If one more person tells me to sell my car and buy an ///M Im going to light their family on fire and make them watch.
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Last edited by GotVANOS?; 03-15-2013 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:23 PM   #27
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Unfortunatley Im still in highschool and dont have a whole ton of money to go out and buy an S54, 6 speed trans, clutch, rear subframe and diff AND the countless other stuff Im sure you'd need. AND my car is an xi, so Id have to swap out the front subframe. My engine is nearing the end of its life so Im building a new one with some slight upgrades that allow it to rev to 7000RPM and make ok power up there RELIABLY. ON THE CHEAP. 210 hp will make me happy. Im considering going with M52B28 internals (can be had for less than M54B30 internals also) in an M54 block so I dont have to deal with the b30s issues (would have to buy an ATI damper). All I have right now is a M54 head and the engine still in my car.
You shouldn't need solid lifters to hit 7000RPM reliably.

Honestly if 210hp makes you happy, stick with m54b30 internals with a stock rev limit. You wouldn't need custom anything, so it'll be a lot cheaper. You'll save the costs of the ATI damper in tuning costs alone.

If you want something cool without shelling out for an s54, modify an s52 to accept a dual vanos assembly. Should reliably make 230ish whp and be able to safely rev a little past 7k.

Last edited by TerraPhantm; 03-15-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:15 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
You shouldn't need solid lifters to hit 7000RPM reliably.

Honestly if 210hp makes you happy, stick with m54b30 internals with a stock rev limit. You wouldn't need custom anything, so it'll be a lot cheaper. You'll save the costs of the ATI damper in tuning costs alone.

If you want something cool without shelling out for an s54, modify an s52 to accept a dual vanos assembly. Should reliably make 230ish whp and be able to safely rev a little past 7k.
This. An M54B30 with headers, Dinan long tube, ZHP cams, and a tune will reliably make 220whp+

I don't know why you'd want to move the power band up on a B25 when most of the time this engine will see low to mid rpms in daily driving..
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:24 PM   #29
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Im dead set on an S52 now. I've already started my search. The only issue Im going to have with the swap is the VANOS. I know Alpina tuned the exhaust VANOS out of the stock DME with theyre B3 3.3 (Basically an S52) so its possible. However I could machine the head to run double VANOS and it wouldnt be too hard. Opinions???
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Quote:
5TFUUU, If one more person tells me to sell my car and buy an ///M Im going to light their family on fire and make them watch.
*****BUY MY 330XI AUTO TRANS AND PARTS. CHEAP!!!******
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:29 PM   #30
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To make your life easier, I'd customize it to be a double vanos S52 if you can. It'll probably make tuning it a lot easier. You should order an ATI damper and secure the oil pump nut; the US S52 has even more harmonic issues than the M54B30.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:04 PM   #31
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Opinions???
Finish high school, enjoy high school life. There will be time later for you to waste time on doing pointless upgrades to your E46. Later you will thank me.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:31 PM   #32
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Finish high school, enjoy high school life. There will be time later for you to waste time on doing pointless upgrades to your E46. Later you will thank me.
I have a full ride to ODU and I make decent money. My engine is on its last legs. Im HAVE to do a swap soon one way or another. Its my hobby that I share with many of my friends, and bonding time I spend with my dad. I love cars. I aspire to have a career in the automotive in the automotive industry. Its not a waste of time. More than just "mods" to me.


^ and yeah, Im fairly sure it would run on stock M54B30 programming. Probably not to its full potential but it would work.
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Shes not your average grocery getter. This 2.5L of fury doesnt mess around.

E21<E30>E36>E46>E90>F30

Quote:
5TFUUU, If one more person tells me to sell my car and buy an ///M Im going to light their family on fire and make them watch.
*****BUY MY 330XI AUTO TRANS AND PARTS. CHEAP!!!******
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:06 PM   #33
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I have a full ride to ODU and I make decent money. My engine is on its last legs. Im HAVE to do a swap soon one way or another. Its my hobby that I share with many of my friends, and bonding time I spend with my dad. I love cars. I aspire to have a career in the automotive in the automotive industry. Its not a waste of time. More than just "mods" to me.


^ and yeah, Im fairly sure it would run on stock M54B30 programming. Probably not to its full potential but it would work.
It may, but you might be chasing down issues for a while.

I'd actually go back on my earlier recommendation. Get an M54B30, and get the VAC OPN kit and an ATI damper. Do headers with race cats, get a tune from Eurocharged (or Evolve if you want to splurge and get the best of the best) and call it a day. It'll rev safely til just shy of 7k. It should also make 220+rwhp.

If you want to splurge in another way, get the B30 and the less aggressive Shrick cams.

Also, don't use Magnaflow cats, there are better options.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:10 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by GotVANOS? View Post
Im dead set on an S52 now. I've already started my search. The only issue Im going to have with the swap is the VANOS. I know Alpina tuned the exhaust VANOS out of the stock DME with theyre B3 3.3 (Basically an S52) so its possible. However I could machine the head to run double VANOS and it wouldnt be too hard. Opinions???
If someone would be so kind as to dump their Alpina MS42 or MS43 dumps, it probably wouldn't be too hard to figure out what they did to disable the exhaust VANOS.

Speculating, it might be as simple as just 0ing out the map(s) and disabling the error codes related to exhaust VANOS

Last edited by TerraPhantm; 03-21-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:13 PM   #35
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I found a good deal on an S52 locally so Im gonna go check it out tommrow afternoon. Im pretty excited. Im almost more excited to learn how to build an engine that drop it in my car.
After doing some research and talking to some people over on bimmerfest, I found out I wont even have to machine the head to accept double VANOS. Just have to swap cam trays and vanos studs. From there Im planning on using the stock M3 intake (need to modify it a little) and an M54 244 exhaust cam with M50 double valve springs.
__________________



Shes not your average grocery getter. This 2.5L of fury doesnt mess around.

E21<E30>E36>E46>E90>F30

Quote:
5TFUUU, If one more person tells me to sell my car and buy an ///M Im going to light their family on fire and make them watch.
*****BUY MY 330XI AUTO TRANS AND PARTS. CHEAP!!!******

Last edited by GotVANOS?; 03-22-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:47 PM   #36
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Update

Haven't posted here in a while but I ended up going a totally different route for cost reasons. S52s arent worth it. Thought about building a cool oversquare engine using a 75mm or 84mm crank with S52 pistons. for 3.0l displacement and better rod to piston ratio for high revs Or a firey little 2.8L with M52B20 pistons (but this gives you like 13.5 compression or sumething stupid like that)

ANYWAY I found that the classic "high" compression stroker would be cost effective and yield good power. (This is a common build over in E36/ E36 forums.)
-M50 non VANOS head and block (sourced and complete engine with intake manifold from pick n pull in VA beach for $270.)

-6mm VANOS valves (already have)

-OE M50 NV double valve springs and retainers (already have)
-M54B30 trays and lifter (already have)

-Double VANOS (yes. M50 NV can be adapted to use VANOS.) http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...vanos-m50-head

-M54B30 crank ($300ish)

-M52B28 pistons (have)

- MAYBE the s54 ITB setup if I have room in my budget, but I'll probably end up using the M50 manifold I have.

- M54B30 injectors. (Already have)

-OEM headgasget ($140)

-All new seals bearings ($450ish)

- Valve job courtesy of Chesapeake public Schools

-welded OPN

-Eagle ESP rods ($400)

-will use the oil cooler setup I'm using now.
-ARP studs


As far as cams go I have no idea. I could cough up the money for schrick 272 264 cams or modify two S52 intake cams by swapping the helix gears (yeah, this can be done too http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...=883363&page=2 )

I should end up with a 2.9l engine with a 12.4cr. Ill wind the thing up to 7200 RPM and be able to make power up there. The M50 head has shrouded valves, and better flow than an M54 head. (Not to mention it was cheap as dirt) I also get the durability of an iron block and head.

Send the ECU off to AA with engine details for a tune.



I really won't be able to really start building the engine up until the summer time but I can work on the head in shop class. Ill prbbly end up posting a different thread for the build.
__________________



Shes not your average grocery getter. This 2.5L of fury doesnt mess around.

E21<E30>E36>E46>E90>F30

Quote:
5TFUUU, If one more person tells me to sell my car and buy an ///M Im going to light their family on fire and make them watch.
*****BUY MY 330XI AUTO TRANS AND PARTS. CHEAP!!!******

Last edited by GotVANOS?; 05-20-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:19 PM   #37
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Is this gonna be a daily driver running on pump gas?
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:31 PM   #38
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yes. 93 octane.
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Shes not your average grocery getter. This 2.5L of fury doesnt mess around.

E21<E30>E36>E46>E90>F30

Quote:
5TFUUU, If one more person tells me to sell my car and buy an ///M Im going to light their family on fire and make them watch.
*****BUY MY 330XI AUTO TRANS AND PARTS. CHEAP!!!******
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:50 PM   #39
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ahhh I typed 12.4cr
I meant ****11.4****
yeah 12.4 is a little much haha. I think 11.4 will be fine.
__________________



Shes not your average grocery getter. This 2.5L of fury doesnt mess around.

E21<E30>E36>E46>E90>F30

Quote:
5TFUUU, If one more person tells me to sell my car and buy an ///M Im going to light their family on fire and make them watch.
*****BUY MY 330XI AUTO TRANS AND PARTS. CHEAP!!!******

Last edited by GotVANOS?; 05-20-2013 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:54 PM   #40
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Lol @ AA for the tune. Evolve is your best bet by far. They tune OBD2 N/A BMWs better than any other company on earth, period. It sounds like you may need their expertise as well. E-mail them as our cars aren't listed on the site. I'd splurge on the tune if I were you or you'll end up with a bunch of headaches.
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