E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-19-2013, 09:08 AM   #21
ThreeOhFive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 232
My Ride: 2002 330i
Okay guys. I've been replaying this whole thing in my head over and over again. It happened really quickly, but I think I know exactly what I did. I hit third, and was shifting quickily to fourth, and somehow, I caught second, at 70 to 75 mph. The car didn't jolt, just took a 7,000 rpm hit for a second until I engaged the clutch and it died. I can't seem to find any other explanation my fault on his one.

So, hopefully it's just the cylinder head. Like I said 75 max, redline in second is like 65 I think. It's hard to believe a quick mistake could destroy a 40k mile M54, but guess there's nothing I can do now, except be really upset with myself.
__________________
ThreeOhFive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 09:09 AM   #22
WDE46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virgo Supercluster
Posts: 8,726
My Ride: 2004 330Ci OBM
what RPM were you at in 3rd?

According to my gearing graphs, 70 mph is maybe a little past redline for 2nd gear. That's probably why you didn't feel a jolt. It should have been capable of that RPM, but who knows, maybe the valve springs are rated very accurately (wouldn't be that surprised). Since your engine can still sort of run, I bet you just slightly bent something.

Edit: Actually I had the redline as 6900 rpm instead of 6500. 70 mph in 2nd gear would be 7000 rpm. 75 mph would be almost 7500 rpm.

Last edited by WDE46; 03-19-2013 at 09:30 AM.
WDE46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 09:27 AM   #23
ThreeOhFive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 232
My Ride: 2002 330i
Had to be between 4.5 and 5k. Maybe a bit over. I was watching the truck in front of me, that's why I upshifted, I was coming up on him in a hurry. To sum up the sound my car made, it was M3-like... she really screamed for a second.
__________________

Last edited by ThreeOhFive; 03-19-2013 at 09:31 AM.
ThreeOhFive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 09:35 AM   #24
WDE46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virgo Supercluster
Posts: 8,726
My Ride: 2004 330Ci OBM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeOhFive View Post
Had to be between 4.5 and 5k. Maybe a bit over. I was watching the truck in front of me, that's why I upshifted, I was coming up on him in a hurry. To sum up the sound my car made, it was M3-like... she really screamed for a second.
You probably put it over the rev limiter by about 1000 rpm.
WDE46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 09:43 AM   #25
ThreeOhFive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 232
My Ride: 2002 330i
Lol enough to shoot the ac compressor belt off. I'm so mad at myself.

Dealership is charging me $140 to look at it, they told me they will know probably right away what it needs. But at this point, replacing the entire engine shouldn't be neccessary it seems... Just the cylinder head. It's about $1,000 in labor to do, and $700 for a used head. Anyone know where remans are sold for fair prices?
__________________
ThreeOhFive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 09:50 AM   #26
fiveightandten
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,202
My Ride: '03 330ci / '98 M3
Back up....

Have them do a compression test on the engine if they haven't already. No more guessing. 7,000 RPM (if that's really all it went to) should not be enough to bend valves. You need to confirm what the problem is before pulling the engine apart.

Secondary to that...if you get a used head, what are they going to do to it? Do they machine the mating surface? Do they guarantee it for a certain amount of time? Do to do any cleaning, any pressure testing, any refurbishing to it? There's a big difference between a used head that is tested, guaranteed against faults, and decked...vs. a used head that's taken out of a junk yard motor and thrown on yours with fingers crossed.
__________________
-Nick
fiveightandten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:19 PM   #27
ThreeOhFive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 232
My Ride: 2002 330i
Lol get this. Dealer said fuel pump is shot. Kinda explains why its running bad. But I thought I was looking at an engine?! Right after a money shift, the pump goes?
__________________
ThreeOhFive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:25 PM   #28
B Potter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 39
My Ride: 01 330
Lucky bastard.

I'm also impressed so many people here knew it wasn't the valves. Well done.
B Potter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:55 PM   #29
ac_2007
Registered User
 
ac_2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,896
My Ride: 2004 M3, 2001 325i
The dealer could be talking out of its ass.

Money shifting to 2nd is an entirely different story than what you originally described.
Do a compression test. Buy the tester from harbor freight, pull your spark plugs, and report back your PSI readings for each cylinder.

Last edited by ac_2007; 03-19-2013 at 04:56 PM. Reason: derped
ac_2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:57 PM   #30
ThreeOhFive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 232
My Ride: 2002 330i
Dealer said that they had no reason to believe there was any engine problems. No valve train noise or knocking heard.
__________________
ThreeOhFive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 05:08 PM   #31
ac_2007
Registered User
 
ac_2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,896
My Ride: 2004 M3, 2001 325i
You can't diagnose a cylinder's compression by ear.

Even if it does end up being your fuel pump, that's a hell of a coincidence, and you still did money-shift your car.
Compression test.
ac_2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 05:14 PM   #32
BeMyWhip
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Big Apple USA
Posts: 3,542
My Ride: 01 BMW 330ci
Can it possibly be an electical issue?
Like coils?
just thinking at loud...
Btw, if it will cost $1700 for a head job,
Can you hire a fanatic to help out, or attempt this yourself?
__________________
Always Mod!!!
Founder: 330Ci The 3 litre coupe
BeMyWhip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 05:44 PM   #33
ThreeOhFive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 232
My Ride: 2002 330i
Called back dealership, they want an additional $200 to test compression. Seems really high. I'm already $75 into service, all they told me is my fuel pump is shot.
__________________

Last edited by ThreeOhFive; 03-19-2013 at 05:47 PM.
ThreeOhFive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 05:52 PM   #34
RKiepper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linn, Missouri
Posts: 1,571
My Ride: 1999 E46 328I x2
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac_2007 View Post
You can't diagnose a cylinder's compression by ear.

Even if it does end up being your fuel pump, that's a hell of a coincidence, and you still did money-shift your car.
Compression test.
You can diagnose valve issues though. Pull the plugs, pressurize the cylinder with it at TDC...

If there's noise coming out the intake, it's the intake valves.
Noise from the oil cap, it's the rings.
Noise out the exhaust, well... You guessed it. Lol

Did that all the time back in school doing rundowns on aircraft engines. A whole lot easier then pulling a jug.

All the aircraft engines we worked on were air cooled, nothin liquid. So we never messed with head gaskets. But if there's air comin' out the radiator fill, your head gasket is shot. So I'd open that up too, just in case.

Last edited by RKiepper; 03-19-2013 at 05:57 PM.
RKiepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 01:01 AM   #35
ThreeOhFive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 232
My Ride: 2002 330i
I'll just cough up the $200 and get the compression test.
__________________
ThreeOhFive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 08:47 AM   #36
WDE46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virgo Supercluster
Posts: 8,726
My Ride: 2004 330Ci OBM
I wouldn't quite put OP's situation into "money shift" territory. He was mid-upper range on a gear and downshifted into a little over the maximum on the next gear. According to OP, worst case is that the engine reached 7500 rpm. I really don't think that bent anything, but like I said, maybe the RPM limiter gives a smaller margin for error than we think. As for why that threw the AC belt off, I don't know. Maybe because he made no attempt to do a proper rev match at all(b/c he though he was upshifting). Fuel pump seems like quite a coincidence but weirder things have happened. I would just do that for the hell of it anyway, especially if it's original. If it fixes it, awesome, if not, you have a new fuel pump. Either way get that compression test and leak down test done.
WDE46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 09:00 AM   #37
fgump
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 74
My Ride: '01 325i
We are all armchair mechanicing.

Check the valvetrain. If it's fine, move to fuel, then electrical. But as you significantly overrevved, either by popping out of gear, or by going from high rpm in 3rd to higher rpm in 2nd, there is the risk.

Heck, even weirder things have happened; M42 engines in the 318is were known to have the cams jump time at overrev, which made them either run like cr@p, or bend valves.

Do the compression/leakdown test. If nothing else, you'll know the condition of your rings and valves if they are good (compression numbers relative to spec).
__________________

'01 325i
161k miles
bone stock
fgump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 10:09 AM   #38
lcoleman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the barnyard
Posts: 2,458
My Ride: '79 Massey Ferguson
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeOhFive View Post
I'll just cough up the $200 and get the compression test.
Why? The dealer can see the car. We can't. Also, $200 is pretty steep for something that would take you 2 hours at most.
__________________
lcoleman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 01:42 PM   #39
ThreeOhFive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 232
My Ride: 2002 330i
Can the dealership do a compression test without the car warmed up? It barely runs due to the low fuel pressure. The dealership it came from is 3 hours away, the local dealer is the one looking at it. They are asking for a fax of the diagnosis of the vehicle after Zimbrick is done checking it out.
__________________

Last edited by ThreeOhFive; 03-20-2013 at 01:43 PM.
ThreeOhFive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 01:56 PM   #40
lcoleman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the barnyard
Posts: 2,458
My Ride: '79 Massey Ferguson
Yes, but the results are better on a warm engine. I would say they'll fix the fuel pump, then do the test.
__________________
lcoleman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use