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Political Talk
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:07 PM   #81
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I bet 99% of my Bmw is made in Germany, by Germans.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:11 PM   #82
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I live in Florida and we grow millions of tons of citrus products, but when going to the grocery store, why do I see oranges from other countries, along with other produce from Europe and Mexico.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:12 PM   #83
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I think a lot of people are mistaking "not produced here" for "cannot be produced here." If the US decided to be self-sufficient within its own borders, it could be done in fairly short order. As has been said, most of the reason things are produced outside of the US is because it is cheaper to hire labor in other countries.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:14 PM   #84
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I think a lot of people are mistaking "not produced here" for "cannot be produced here." If the US decided to be self-sufficient within its own borders, it could be done in fairly short order. As has been said, most of the reason things are produced outside of the US is because it is cheaper to hire labor in other countries.
Unfortunately, the side-effect of that is the loss of tooling, loss of labor force (trained laborforce) and general loss of knowhow (if the job has been done elsewhere long enough.)

IMHO, the US can absolutely be self sufficient, but it would take years for everything to start running like clockwork if the rest of the world was cut from the US.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:15 PM   #85
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True that Vader!
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:20 PM   #86
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I spent 2 years in the most forward deployed inf battalion in northern Germany during the Cold War, 18 months in the closest inf unit to the 38th parallel, 3 years between Iraq, Egypt, and Israel with the MFO. So been there done and seen that! We control airspace first, then ground forces move in. That's how we operate.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:21 PM   #87
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Regardless of all the BS in the last few pages, the facts are there...

North Korea is threatening the US and South Korea and in turn the rest of the world. They are ignoring previously agreed on treaties and are trying their best to make weapons to destroy other countries.

Should we just wait until they launch? Or maybe until they launch and its in an allied's airspace? Or maybe we wait until it actually hits an allied? Or wait until two actually hit? Or until there are at least 100 dead? or 1000? or ?

Just bomb the sheit out of them before the war starts.

The last person to openly threaten the U.S. and our allies with nuclear war was Nikita Kruschev in October 1962, and we know how that story almost ended.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:21 PM   #88
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Thats where you and I differ. I don't believe in what politicians like to call "rebuilding a nation." And yes, if by counterinsurgency you mean going after terrorists, then I have been in the heart of it.
counterinsurgency requires more than "going after terrorists".
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:31 PM   #89
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I live in Florida and we grow millions of tons of citrus products, but when going to the grocery store, why do I see oranges from other countries, along with other produce from Europe and Mexico.
It's called "comparative trade advantage."

Just because we buy from other countries, doesn't mean we have to.

As far as your oranges go, lets say it costs us $2 per orange here, we may buy them from Mexico for $1 and sell to Canada for $3.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:38 PM   #90
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Unfortunately, the side-effect of that is the loss of tooling, loss of labor force (trained laborforce) and general loss of knowhow (if the job has been done elsewhere long enough.)

IMHO, the US can absolutely be self sufficient, but it would take years for everything to start running like clockwork if the rest of the world was cut from the US.
I dunno about "years," but it would take a little while, for sure. I doubt that we've lost too much general know-how--even for products that we don't produce here, we help set up the manufacturing processes and, in many cases, supervise them closely in other countries.

Either way: hopefully we never have to find out.
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:42 PM   #91
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Good point Glock...
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Old 04-06-2013, 02:50 PM   #92
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Good point Glock...
"In economics, comparative advantage refers to the ability of a party to produce a particular good or service at a lower marginal and opportunity cost over another. Even if one country is more efficient in the production of all goods (absolute advantage in all goods) than the other, both countries will still gain by trading with each other, as long as they have different relative efficiencies.

For example, if, using machinery, a worker in one country can produce both shoes and shirts at 6 per hour, and a worker in a country with less machinery can produce either 2 shoes or 4 shirts in an hour, each country can gain from trade because their internal trade-offs between shoes and shirts are different. The less-efficient country has a comparative advantage in shirts, so it finds it more efficient to produce shirts and trade them to the more-efficient country for shoes. Without trade, its opportunity cost per shoe was 2 shirts; by trading, its cost per shoe can reduce to as low as 1 shirt depending on how much trade occurs (since the more-efficient country has a 1:1 trade-off). The more-efficient country has a comparative advantage in shoes, so it can gain in efficiency by moving some workers from shirt-production to shoe-production and trading some shoes for shirts. Without trade, its cost to make a shirt was 1 shoe; by trading, its cost per shirt can go as low as 1/2 shoe depending on how much trade occurs.

The net benefits to each country are called the gains from trade."
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:11 PM   #93
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Haha spot on glockman. Takes me back to micro economics... Or was that macro? I went to PSU so class was secondary... Oops.

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Old 04-06-2013, 03:33 PM   #94
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Finally, which people deserve to be punched in the face? The millions of people that live in stark poverty and are fed nothing but lies from their government with little to no contact from the world south of the 38th parallel?
Honestly, eff 'em. They have free will.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:01 PM   #95
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They have free will.
If only it were that simple.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:03 PM   #96
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Don't disagree with you, but never said they weren't unbeatable. I said we shouldn't underestimate them - despite their inferior military capabilities. Like you mentioned, they do have a ton of troops, and we should also take into account intangibles such as their military culture, esprit de corps, and willpower/will to fight.
Oh I didn't mean to say that you were. I Just don't think we should view them as that much of a danger as they're only really dangerous under certain conditions. But I agree in no way underestimate them. I mean, look what happened last time we dismissed a potential enemy
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:28 PM   #97
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Oh I didn't mean to say that you were. I Just don't think we should view them as that much of a danger as they're only really dangerous under certain conditions. But I agree in no way underestimate them. I mean, look what happened last time we dismissed a potential enemy
No worries.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:54 PM   #98
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If only it were that simple.
Not my chair, not my problem. That's what I say
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #99
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Honestly, eff 'em. They have free will.
Dangerous thinking my friend. Free will is often not enough. I definitely see your point, but when the populace is completely unarmed, it really isn't easy. The interesting thing about NK (and relating to your point) is that a lot of their defectors are actually on duty military. This does signify that many of their armed forces are not "down with the cause" and if the people were to revolt, there would not be THAT much opposition. A lot of the soldiers (not enough to win anyway) would not fight against the people.

On the flipside, their situation was the same as we had in the USSR. Completely controlled propaganda, and if you try anything, off to Siberia you go. My father was threatened 4 times to 'cooperate' or else. Having a wife, kids, and family makes things difficult because they went after them as well, not just the subject at hand.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:00 PM   #100
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Dangerous thinking my friend. Free will is often not enough. I definitely see your point, but when the populace is completely unarmed, it really isn't easy. The interesting thing about NK (and relating to your point) is that a lot of their defectors are actually on duty military. This does signify that many of their armed forces are not "down with the cause" and if the people were to revolt, there would not be THAT much opposition. A lot of the soldiers (not enough to win anyway) would not fight against the people.

On the flipside, their situation was the same as we had in the USSR. Completely controlled propaganda, and if you try anything, off to Siberia you go. My father was threatened 4 times to 'cooperate' or else. Having a wife, kids, and family makes things difficult because they went after them as well, not just the subject at hand.
You don't understand the Korea situation much at all.
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