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Old 04-03-2013, 07:17 AM   #61
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Let us also not forget that there are non-religious people who are against gay marriage. Heck, my gay friends are split down the middle on it.
Do you have <insert demographic here> friends?

How many gay friends do you have? How many times did you discuss gay marriage with them? How many are for/against? What are the reasons for being against?
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:21 AM   #62
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Do you have <insert demographic here> friends?

How many gay friends do you have? How many times did you discuss gay marriage with them? How many are for/against? What are the reasons for being against?
I actually have several, my family business was a huge hair salon. Also, I live in New York.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:57 AM   #63
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I actually have several, my family business was a huge hair salon. Also, I live in New York.
So what's the breakdown for/against?

What's the reasoning against?
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:12 AM   #64
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So what's the breakdown for/against?

What's the reasoning against?
Well the half or so (we're only talking about like 8 people here) that are for it are generally hardcore democrats anyway so they are talking point regurgitators/facebook posters. I have one friend that is super GOP and he is on my train of thought that government has no role in it for anyone. He's also religious though. Our other friend thinks that marriage has a definition just like bicycle, and you can't petition the government to call a tricycle a bicycle. A couple just don't care and think its much ado about nothing. These are all people in their 30's. 3 of them I lived with in my fraternity house in college.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:17 AM   #65
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Thanks for the answer.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:38 AM   #66
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But it's stupid to try to look down on the guy over this "incident".
It is stupid to try, it is absolutely acceptable to do.
"Do. Or not do. There is no try"

Its perfectly fine to crucify this guy in the court of public opinion for his statement. He comes back with some insincere apology (perhaps to try and reduce the financial damage his statement made to his foundation) and call him out that such an apology is also . He wants to be a public figure, pontificating over the airways...(as Sherlock Holmes said) "well, well, well..such is the price of fame."

There are those here which have sided with the basic tenant of his statement, referring to homosexuality as abhorrent. Such is their right, but such is the right of other so express their scorn as well. Free speech cuts both ways.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:47 AM   #67
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Well the half or so (we're only talking about like 8 people here) that are for it are generally hardcore democrats anyway so they are talking point regurgitators/facebook posters. I have one friend that is super GOP and he is on my train of thought that government has no role in it for anyone. He's also religious though. Our other friend thinks that marriage has a definition just like bicycle, and you can't petition the government to call a tricycle a bicycle. A couple just don't care and think its much ado about nothing. These are all people in their 30's. 3 of them I lived with in my fraternity house in college.
Well, if two of the eight, truly don't care, you can hardly put them on one side or the other. At best you would have to drop the list from eight to six and say that it is a 2 for 1 split for. With some additional who don't care either way. To count "no comments" as either for or against is bad statistical representation, would you not agree?
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:56 PM   #68
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Question: Aren't most pedophiles heterosexual? If so, using Carson's logic, should we thus ban heterosexual marriage as somehow condoning, even encouraging pedophilia?
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:18 PM   #69
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Question: Aren't most pedophiles heterosexual? If so, using Carson's logic, should we thus ban heterosexual marriage as somehow condoning, even encouraging pedophilia?
I always imagine a kiddie toucher touching little boys with weird mustaches and eye glasses that are too big for their face.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:33 PM   #70
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Question: Aren't most pedophiles heterosexual? If so, using Carson's logic, should we thus ban heterosexual marriage as somehow condoning, even encouraging pedophilia?
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:45 PM   #71
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Question: Aren't most pedophiles heterosexual? If so, using Carson's logic, should we thus ban heterosexual marriage as somehow condoning, even encouraging pedophilia?
What "logic" are you referring to? Carson didn't say homosexuals are pedophiles.
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Yes
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:15 AM   #72
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What "logic" are you referring to? Carson didn't say homosexuals are pedophiles.
Carson: "...no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality - it doesn't matter what they are, they don't get to change the definition."

The not so subtle inference of equivalency between NAMBLA (National Man/Boy Love Association) and gays in regards to marriage, a rather crude old rhetorical sleight of hand inserting emotional red herrings as part of one's argumentative logical structure. Why then does he even mention NAMBLA or bestiality in his statement? Why not, say, the Catholic Church or the Family Research Council. The man is no dope and he clearly knew what he was saying when he was trying to create/infer a level of logical equivalency.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:24 AM   #73
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Carson: "...no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality - it doesn't matter what they are, they don't get to change the definition."

The not so subtle inference of equivalency between NAMBLA (National Man/Boy Love Association) and gays in regards to marriage, a rather crude old rhetorical sleight of hand inserting emotional red herrings as part of one's argumentative logical structure. Why then does he even mention NAMBLA or bestiality in his statement? Why not, say, the Catholic Church or the Family Research Council. The man is no dope and he clearly knew what he was saying when he was trying to create/infer a level of logical equivalency.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:32 AM   #74
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Carson: "...no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality - it doesn't matter what they are, they don't get to change the definition."

The not so subtle inference of equivalency between NAMBLA (National Man/Boy Love Association) and gays in regards to marriage, a rather crude old rhetorical sleight of hand inserting emotional red herrings as part of one's argumentative logical structure. Why then does he even mention NAMBLA or bestiality in his statement? Why not, say, the Catholic Church or the Family Research Council. The man is no dope and he clearly knew what he was saying when he was trying to create/infer a level of logical equivalency.
He's not inferring equivalency, he's outright stating equivalency. There's nothing subtle about it.

However, he's stating their equivalency with regard to his statement about who has the authority to change the definition of marriage. And from his POV, it's a factually correct statement.

Just because he states that lack-of-marriage-definition-changing-authority is something they have in common doesn't mean he's saying they are otherwise the same.

If I say "no one can convince me to buy a lottery ticket, not an astronaut, a Nazi, a giraffe, no one" does that mean I think astronauts are long-necked Nazis? No, it doesn't. It means none of them (along with everyone else) can influence my lottery ticket decision. If you choose to extrapolate my unstated feelings on the similarities between astronauts, Nazis and giraffes without relevant statements from me, that's your responsibility.
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As a juror, do you think the trial was a publicity stunt?

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Last edited by Xcelratr; 04-04-2013 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Typed "inferring" in 2nd paragraph, meant "stating"
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:03 PM   #75
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He's not inferring equivalency, he's outright stating equivalency. There's nothing subtle about it.

However, he's inferring their equivalency with regard to his statement about who has the authority to change the definition of marriage. And from his POV, it's a factually correct statement.

Just because he states that lack-of-marriage-definition-changing-authority is something they have in common doesn't mean he's saying they are otherwise the same.

If I say "no one can convince me to buy a lottery ticket, not an astronaut, a Nazi, a giraffe, no one" does that mean I think astronauts are long-necked Nazis? No, it doesn't. It means none of them (along with everyone else) can influence my lottery ticket decision. If you choose to extrapolate my unstated feelings on the similarities between astronauts, Nazis and giraffes without relevant statements from me, that's your responsibility.
Agreed, excellent point.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:11 PM   #76
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Agreed, excellent point.
Thanks.

Don't get me wrong, I completely disagree with Carson's stance on gay marriage, and he and I probably would agree on very little when it comes to religion's role in society at all.

But I also disagree with people that want to take a statement like this and blow it up into more than it is just to advance their cause.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:21 PM   #77
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Limited government. Gays do what they want. Straights do what they want. Whites, blacks, browns, yellows do whatever you want... Just don't come to me to foot the bill for your desires and mistakes. Make your tomorrow's via hard work today.

You want to do drugs? Fine, but don't ask me to cover your healthcare.

You want to illegally come into the country? Fine, but don't look to me for your healthcare, children's education, food, etc.

We need to get away from this religious right v atheist left and move towards nanny state and tyranny v self reliance and choice.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:38 PM   #78
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Limited government. Gays do what they want. Straights do what they want. Whites, blacks, browns, yellows do whatever you want... Just don't come to me to foot the bill for your desires and mistakes. Make your tomorrow's via hard work today.

You want to do drugs? Fine, but don't ask me to cover your healthcare.

You want to illegally come into the country? Fine, but don't look to me for your healthcare, children's education, food, etc.

We need to get away from this religious right v atheist left and move towards nanny state and tyranny v self reliance and choice.
Not sure that's what we're discussing here, but glad to see you're back.

Where do you stand on gay marriage?
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:39 PM   #79
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Limited government. Gays do what they want. Straights do what they want. Whites, blacks, browns, yellows do whatever you want... Just don't come to me to foot the bill for your desires and mistakes. Make your tomorrow's via hard work today.

You want to do drugs? Fine, but don't ask me to cover your healthcare.

You want to illegally come into the country? Fine, but don't look to me for your healthcare, children's education, food, etc.

We need to get away from this religious right v atheist left and move towards nanny state and tyranny v self reliance and choice.
And "gays doing what they want" includes them using the term marriage, right?

You want a military to defend the land, sea, & air? Fine, but don't look to me to pay for it. I'll take my chances on my own.

You want any public roads, or water quality standard, or any recourse to legal action against someone? Fine, but don't expect me to pay for your use of them. Cough up the money yourself.

Face it Chase. If you want any semblance of something which is not complete anarchy? You have some variant of a nanny state. The question is not "do we need a nanny state?" The question is "how much of a nanny state should we have?"
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:41 PM   #80
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If I say "no one can convince me to buy a lottery ticket, not an astronaut, a Nazi, a giraffe, no one" does that mean I think astronauts are long-necked Nazis? No, it doesn't. It means none of them (along with everyone else) can influence my lottery ticket decision. If you choose to extrapolate my unstated feelings on the similarities between astronauts, Nazis and giraffes without relevant statements from me, that's your responsibility.
Hmmm... I disagree. If you list one thing, then follow it up by two disgusting ones (NAMBLA and bestiality) it's kind of clear to me.

Listing an astronaut, a Nazi and a giraffe is not only weird, but follows no logic.

If you list three wildly different things, it implies that you mean to encompass many different things. If you list one and follow it by two things that have something clearly in common (disorder of a sexual nature) and that first one happens to have a sexual component, you're clearly saying something.

He's lumping them in together, and there's no two ways about it.
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