E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > General Off-Topic

General Off-Topic
Everything not about BMWs. Posts must be "primetime" safe and in good taste. You must be logged in to see sub-forums.
Click here to browse all new posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 19 votes, 5.00 average.
Old 02-07-2014, 10:32 AM   #2481
Stankia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 55
My Ride: 4.2FSI S-Line
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaloArchive View Post
It sounds like you are throwing a lot of hate around and have obviously not read the thread. Shaban has made his initial investment plus $30k, others have made their initial investment and more also. If you've even remotely browsed my posts in here, you would have realized that I have made a tidier profit off of cryptocurrency than you probably hope to make in 10 years off of your investments.

And, if you think calling bitcoin is worthless, tell that to the several billion dollar market cap and the price rise from $5 to $1000 alone.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4.
This. I bought my first 7950 for $300 back when this thread was started. It payed for itself many, many times over already and I could sell it today for 350 dollars on ebay easily.
__________________
DOGE Crew

Last edited by Stankia; 02-07-2014 at 10:33 AM.
Stankia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 10:37 AM   #2482
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Vega View Post
To make volvo happy when I get my initial back (again) I will put that into penny stocks. I can't believe an investor is looking at this as an either / or situation. Normally they preach diversity. Look at cryptos as a risky investment to diversify (yo bond's *****), and use your penny stocks to hedge bitcoin losses (hah, that's funny)
Haha don't do that. Mining is practically a guaranteed paycheck compared to penny stocks

Buy another videocard

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Last edited by jeffro3000; 02-07-2014 at 10:39 AM.
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 11:19 AM   #2483
adaseb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,072
My Ride: 2002 BMW 320i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volvoguy View Post
LOL, it's called a stop loss. Your hardware is inflated, because of speculation.

I can pull my money out at anytime, I can make a .3 cent profit or take a 10 cent loss and be out of the transaction in 10 secs. My money is secured, I can write off any losses. I can sell at market, limit, I can sell at stop, stop limit. etc.

Yours is stuck somewhere imaginary with people who you have no idea if they can be trusted or even manage a trading platform.

I can't even understand how you can rationalize your point. The difference is that you set to gain by selling computers here and hoping your worthless coins appreciate due to speculators and uneducated consumers.

I have nothing to gain by having people invest in safer assets. A penny stock is safer then bitcoin.
Dude I trade Gold, Oil, and Currency futures for a living and comparing Mining to trading stocks is like comparing a M5 to a Moped.

Trading stocks is stressful. You need a huge bankroll to get a decent broker with low commissions.

This isn't 2009 when stocks are at their all time lows. Right now finding a company that can double its earning that's cheap is almost impossible.

Most of the pink slip stocks will never make you money. They are there for pump and dumpers to steal money from the novice.

Yes you have a stop loss but you also have leverage so you can easily empty your account. I know countless of individuals who thought they could make it by trading stocks and they lost their entire savings accounts trading stocks and/or options.

The risk in trading stocks is huge.

There is risk in mining but it has a higher success rate because all you need is the market to be constant for 2-3 weeks and you break-even on hardware costs and whatever you make after is profit. GPUs, CPUs, PSU, usually last a very long time and you can always re-sell it.

The only idiots that lose money in mining are the ones that overpay for hardware on their 24.99% interest credit cards and they panic when the market corrects itself a little.

Start small, and build your way up along the way.
adaseb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 11:27 AM   #2484
braymond141
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oakhurst, Ca
Posts: 1,751
My Ride: 96 M3, 98 M3, 01 M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by adaseb View Post

Most of the pink slip stocks will never make you money. They are there for pump and dumpers to steal money from the novice.
I was going to mention this as well, but technically I feel the that crypto currency is nothing more than a pump and dump (maybe not bitcoin, but other coins).
__________________


Central California BMW Parts Swap
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1526941747526167/
braymond141 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 11:44 AM   #2485
Volvoguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nyc
Posts: 18
My Ride: IS300;Volvo s60T;
Quote:
Originally Posted by adaseb View Post
Dude I trade Gold, Oil, and Currency futures for a living and comparing Mining to trading stocks is like comparing a M5 to a Moped.

Trading stocks is stressful. You need a huge bankroll to get a decent broker with low commissions.

This isn't 2009 when stocks are at their all time lows. Right now finding a company that can double its earning that's cheap is almost impossible.

Most of the pink slip stocks will never make you money. They are there for pump and dumpers to steal money from the novice.

Yes you have a stop loss but you also have leverage so you can easily empty your account. I know countless of individuals who thought they could make it by trading stocks and they lost their entire savings accounts trading stocks and/or options.

The risk in trading stocks is huge.

There is risk in mining but it has a higher success rate because all you need is the market to be constant for 2-3 weeks and you break-even on hardware costs and whatever you make after is profit. GPUs, CPUs, PSU, usually last a very long time and you can always re-sell it.

The only idiots that lose money in mining are the ones that overpay for hardware on their 24.99% interest credit cards and they panic when the market corrects itself a little.

Start small, and build your way up along the way.
Institutional or independent?

I don't see how you need a huge bankroll to start trading? All you need is a few thousand dollars to get the ball rolling.

Whatever, I can't help people who choose not to be helped.

Good luck.
__________________
Volvoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 11:51 AM   #2486
cowmoo32
drunken science
 
cowmoo32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 5,532
My Ride: Trek 1.5
I still haven't heard how crypto currencies, AKA fiat currencies, are a ponzi scheme.
__________________

flickher

What's this about a brownie in motion?

Last edited by cowmoo32; 02-07-2014 at 11:51 AM.
cowmoo32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 11:53 AM   #2487
braymond141
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oakhurst, Ca
Posts: 1,751
My Ride: 96 M3, 98 M3, 01 M5
I'm pretty sure he meant pump and dump.
__________________


Central California BMW Parts Swap
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1526941747526167/
braymond141 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:04 PM   #2488
HaloArchive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: One State East of Washington
Posts: 273
My Ride: My Office Chair
Quote:
Originally Posted by braymond141 View Post
I'm pretty sure he meant pump and dump.
Hes just mad he didn't hop on the boat when it was still cold back when he was trolling this thread several months ago ...
HaloArchive is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:05 PM   #2489
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by adaseb View Post

The risk in trading stocks is huge.

There is risk in mining but it has a higher success rate because all you need is the market to be constant for 2-3 weeks and you break-even on hardware costs and whatever you make after is profit.

Start small, and build your way up along the way.

This.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Volvoguy View Post

Whatever, I can't help people who choose not to be helped.

Good luck.
lol

Says the guy who thinks penny stocks are lower risk than mining cryptocurrency.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:11 PM   #2490
Volvoguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nyc
Posts: 18
My Ride: IS300;Volvo s60T;
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
This.






lol

Says the guy who thinks penny stocks are lower risk than mining cryptocurrency.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
I never said penny stocks are safer, I said for you guys, it makes more sense.

I am not talking about .10 cent stocks, I am talking about well researched and run companies that are on the market that is prime to expand. I suggest penny stocks for you guys because it appears majority of you are cash poor and probably won't be able to invest in more solid blue chips.

At the very least, by learning how to buy certain mid cap stocks you can learn the market, how it operates, how to trade and eventually as your net worth rises be able to utilize the skills you attained to build a respectable portfolio.

I am not going to reveal my stock positions due to my propriety research, buy I have two biotech companies that I purchased at 22 cents to 1 dollar that are worth, as of current writing, 5.14 and 4.80.

What skills did you attain by "trading" bit coins. You can't even get your money out when you need it.

As I said, the only reason why I detract from you guys, is because I think your energies could better be expended elsewhere. But as in Plato's allegory of the cave, those that want to believe in the shadows will continue to believe in it.

P.S. I work in wealth management for one of the largest multinational corporate trade companies in the world. Most of my friends are wealth management executives and analyst at UBS, JP Morgan, and Barclays.
__________________
Volvoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:15 PM   #2491
cowmoo32
drunken science
 
cowmoo32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 5,532
My Ride: Trek 1.5
...ponzi scheme. Still not seeing it.
__________________

flickher

What's this about a brownie in motion?
cowmoo32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:16 PM   #2492
braymond141
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oakhurst, Ca
Posts: 1,751
My Ride: 96 M3, 98 M3, 01 M5
such proprietary

much research

wow
__________________


Central California BMW Parts Swap
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1526941747526167/

Last edited by braymond141; 02-07-2014 at 12:17 PM.
braymond141 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:16 PM   #2493
Volvoguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nyc
Posts: 18
My Ride: IS300;Volvo s60T;
Also read this : http://goldsilverworlds.com/money-cu...ntrinsic-value

Although bitcoins replicate all the properties of gold, there is one major fundamental difference: intrinsic value. Schiff explains:

Bitcoin does not have any intrinsic value. The reason gold became money was first it was valued as a commodity. It was a luxury good known throughout the world. You knew that if you needed something you could always buy it with gold (even if the person who accepted your gold didn't want it he knew somebody else who did). Gold was uniquely suited to be money over a lot of other commodities and basically won the free market competition for money because it had a lot of other characteristics. These are the characteristics that bitcoin is replicating but they are not replicating the intrinsic value that made goal desirable in the first place. The only reason that anybody wants bitcoins is because they believe somebody else wants them; they want them to exchange them for the things that they want. People want gold for itself. Yes it can also be used to exchange but it has a value unique to itself. It has its own properties that are desirable; there is nothing you can do with a bitcoin except give it to somebody else.

Is it correct to think that, because it is easier to use bitcoin than gold, bitcoins have intrinsic value? Peter Schiff does not think so:

Go back to the original currencies. The original currencies were issued by private banks. In fact if you go back to the beginning, the first currency was issued by a goldsmith; somebody took their gold
to a goldsmith and gave a warehouse receipt for that gold. Now the person who owned a warehouse receipt from a reputable goldsmith, instead of going back to the goldsmith and fetching is gold, he might be able to take that receipt and exchange it with somebody else who had goods and services that he desired and the other person might accept it because they recognized the receipt, they know it's a reputable mint, they know there's gold there, and so that warehouse receipt can circulate as currency. That is what banks did. Before the Federal Reserve in 1913, private banks all around the US issued their own note currency. The currency was backed by gold that the banks had in their walls but it was easier to use the currency rather than lugging around gold, you can use these bank notes. So the original paper currencies had a benefit the gold did not have in that it was easier to use than the gold itself. But that did not give paper money backed by gold intrinsic value. The only reason the paper had value was because it was backed by the intrinsic value of gold.

Today we do not have legitimate currency, we have a fiat currency. There is nothing behind the dollar which is why people think what is wrong with bitcoin? There is a significant difference. The dollar
is legal tender here in America, other currencies are legal tender some place else. Even though I do not want dollars, the government only accepts dollars in payment of taxes. So there is a legitimate use for dollars even though they do not have any intrinsic value the way gold does. But bitcoins do not have any intrinsic value whatsoever.

To sum up, Schiff is pretty clear in this thinking that bitcoin is a bubble in the making. Whether it is ready to burst, or if it will go on for some (longer) time, he has no idea. This is why he thinks so:

So here is the problem. People are up advocating the use a bit coins as if it is a form of money. But it can't be because bitcoins do not represent a store value. You don't know what it quite you could be worth next week, next year, in five years. Nobody knows if it will be worth $0 or if somebody could come up with an alternative digital currency that maybe is more attractive than bitcoin. Somebody might come up with a legitimate digital currency that is actually backed by gold. In the meantime you have got a very volatile bitcoin (it swings in price). Most of the bitcoins that have been mined are not circulating; they are being hoarded by the miners or people who bought some other bitcoins when they were just pennies a piece; they are not being used in commerce, they are not being sold, that is one of the reasons that the prices are rising. A lot of people are trying to enter the market enticed into the market by the spectacular gain in prices. Again why are people buying bitcoins? They are buying them because they believe the price is going to go up; they are hoping to spend the bitcoins on something else in the future.

I'm not doubting the sincerity of a lot of the people who own bitcoin, I just think that their judgment has been clouded by the money and by the potential of a windfall IF what they are hoping to occur does. It is not going to happen because what makes gold money is not just the fact that it can be divisible or that it is scares but that it has intrinsic value on its own. Right now the price of bitcoin is going up and people are validating their belief in bitcoin by the rising price. That does not validate anything, it just as easily validates my premise that there is a bubble in bitcoins if there is legitimate value. When the tide turns, a lot of people are going to want to get out of bitcoins, not too many will be there at the other side of the trade and then when the price plunges you will have a lot of people that can be very upset because they paid a high price for their bitcoins. If you do not want to be in government fiat money, if you want to be in real money that can not be crated it will they can not be inflated away, buy gold. In fact, if anything, I think the recent weakness in gold has added fuel to the bitcoin fire because some people who might be buying gold but may be discouraged from the recent price declines, compare that to the skyrocketing price of bitcoins and jump to the wrong conclusions. I think it's going up because it is a mania because it is a bubble. In the meantime, real value is being overlooked by people who are rightly concerned about all the money being printed, concerned about a currency crisis, and who want to do something about it to preserve their savings. Bitcoin has been around for about four years, gold has been around for more than 4,000 years. Will bitcoin be around in four years from now? I have no idea but I'm confident gold will.

Peter David Schiff (/***712;***643;***618;f/; born March 23, 1963) is an American businessman, investment broker, author and financial commentator. Schiff is CEO and chief global strategist[3] of Euro Pacific Capital Inc., a broker-dealer based in Westport, Connecticut.[4]
Schiff has appeared as a guest on financial television shows and been quoted in major print publications. He is host of The Peter Schiff Show, an audio show broadcast on terrestrial and internet radio[5] and was formerly host of an internet podcast called Wall Street Unspun[6] now archived as podcasts.[5][7] Schiff acquired significant internet fame for correctly predicting in 2005-2007 the collapse in U.S. housing prices that would occur in 2008 and the global financial crisis that would ensue. In 2010, Schiff ran in the Republican primary for the United States Senate seat in Connecticut, but lost to Linda McMahon.
Schiff is known for his bearish views on the US economy and US dollar, and his bullish views on commodities, foreign stocks and foreign currencies. Schiff also voices strong support for the Austrian School of economic thought, first introduced to him by his father.[8][9]
__________________
Volvoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:18 PM   #2494
Volvoguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nyc
Posts: 18
My Ride: IS300;Volvo s60T;
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowmoo32 View Post
...ponzi scheme. Still not seeing it.
PONZI ECONOMICS

First, someone who no one has ever heard of before announces that he has discovered a way to make money. In the case of Bitcoins, the claim is literal. The creator literally made what he says is money, or will be money. He made this money out of digits. He made it out of nothing. Think "Federal Reserve wanna-be."

Second, the individual claims that a particular market provides unexploited arbitrage opportunities. Something is selling too low. If you buy into the program now, the person running the scheme will be able to sell it high on your behalf. So, you will take advantage of the arbitrage opportunity.

Today, with high-speed trading, arbitrage opportunities last only for a few milliseconds seconds in widely traded markets. Arbitrage opportunities in the commodity futures market last for very short periods. But in the most leveraged and sophisticated of all the futures markets, namely, the currency futures markets, arbitrage opportunities last for so brief a period of time that only high-speed computer programs can take advantage of them.

The individual who sells the Ponzi scheme makes money by siphoning off a large share of the money coming in. In other words, he does not make the investment. But Bitcoins are unique. The money was siphoned off from the beginning. Somebody owned a good percentage of the original digits. Then, by telling his story, this individual created demand for all of the digits. The dollar-value of his share of the Bitcoins appreciates with the other digits.

This strategy was described a generation ago by George Goodman, who wrote under the pseudonym of Adam Smith. You can find it in his book, Supermoney. This is done with financial corporations when individuals create a new business, retain a large share of the shares, and then sell the stock to the public. In this sense, Bitcoins is not a Ponzi scheme. It is simply a supermoney scheme.

The Ponzi aspect of it comes when we look at the justification for Bitcoins. They were sold on the basis that Bitcoins will be an alternative currency. In other words, this will be the money of the future.

The coins will never be the money of the future. This is my main argument.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/11828.cfm

Gary Kilgore North (born February 1942) is an American economic historian.[1] Writing from a Christian Reconstructionist perspective, North has authored or coauthored over fifty books on topics including Christian theology, economics, and history. He is an Associated Scholar of the Ludwig von Mises Institute.[2]
__________________
Volvoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:20 PM   #2495
HaloArchive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: One State East of Washington
Posts: 273
My Ride: My Office Chair
It sounds to me like you do not have any of your own ideas or research ... You are just copying whatever negative article regarding crypto currencies you can find online.
HaloArchive is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:31 PM   #2496
Shaban
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 24
My Ride: 2005 CBR600
Volvo, aside from what I have already made in cryptocurrencies, I'm still making anywhere between $60-$120 per day... and I don't have to do anything. The one part you're not understanding is that Bitcoin isn't a stock... it wasn't created to become an investment. It was created to become a currency. I've bought computer parts and flights with this currency. Tell me what currency can start up and have a non-volatile value? Bitcoin is 5 years old, and it only started becoming more accepted in 2013.

Stop looking at it as an investment and look at it as a currency (even though right now it's not much of a currency as it is a payment option)
__________________
- Alex
Shaban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:36 PM   #2497
Volvoguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nyc
Posts: 18
My Ride: IS300;Volvo s60T;
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaloArchive View Post
It sounds to me like you do not have any of your own ideas or research ... You are just copying whatever negative article regarding crypto currencies you can find online.
Right, because the articles I am quoting from are based on senior level currency and finance executives. Despite my own talents in the financial services industry, I am no means an Alan Greenspan or Robert Shiller (nobel peace prize winner that predicted the housing bubble.

Article about http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...itcoin-bubble/

There is something called best practices and utilizing subject matter experts.
__________________
Volvoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:38 PM   #2498
Volvoguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nyc
Posts: 18
My Ride: IS300;Volvo s60T;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaban View Post
Volvo, aside from what I have already made in cryptocurrencies, I'm still making anywhere between $60-$120 per day... and I don't have to do anything. The one part you're not understanding is that Bitcoin isn't a stock... it wasn't created to become an investment. It was created to become a currency. I've bought computer parts and flights with this currency. Tell me what currency can start up and have a non-volatile value? Bitcoin is 5 years old, and it only started becoming more accepted in 2013.

Stop looking at it as an investment and look at it as a currency (even though right now it's not much of a currency as it is a payment option)
Right, I understand it works for you. At this point I am exhausted in trying to extol something to people who don't care. Best of luck, I trust you will be fine in the near term.

Just wanted to be helpful.
__________________
Volvoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:45 PM   #2499
Shaban
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 24
My Ride: 2005 CBR600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volvoguy View Post
Right, I understand it works for you. At this point I am exhausted in trying to extol something to people who don't care. Best of luck, I trust you will be fine in the near term.

Just wanted to be helpful.
Thanks for the help, but at the same time that you are trying to help us, we are trying to help you.
__________________
- Alex
Shaban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 12:51 PM   #2500
Volvoguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nyc
Posts: 18
My Ride: IS300;Volvo s60T;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaban View Post
Thanks for the help, but at the same time that you are trying to help us, we are trying to help you.
Right, as I said earlier, it doesn't benefit me on way or the other, I write these things, only to offer a counter point for speculators, that don't understand whats going on and purchasing bitcoins with cash.

Essentially what you guys are doing is running a pump and dump for uneducated third world countries.

I just want to make sure that the irrational exuberance doesn't go too far where people suffer long term consequences, eg: people buying real estate as investment properties during the bubble.
__________________
Volvoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use