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Old 04-06-2013, 01:16 PM   #21
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life as it enters this world? This isn't a religious argument, it's one based on common law. When a human being enters the world, it's a human and is entitled to the same basic rights as a 100 year old man. To say the mom has the right to murder her child because she NOW thinks it's a bad idea... fuk that.
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Old 04-06-2013, 01:42 PM   #22
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life as it enters this world? This isn't a religious argument, it's one based on common law. When a human being enters the world, it's a human and is entitled to the same basic rights as a 100 year old man. To say the mom has the right to murder her child because she NOW thinks it's a bad idea... fuk that.
And since human beings need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others (including the state as conservatives are so quick to point out) then let this human being survive on their own. Once they have entered the world, they are responsible for themselves. If this human being can't fend for themselves, than they die. You OK with that Chase? Or are your much ballyhooed "principles" of responsibility only applicable when they suit you?

Said it before and I'll say it again...The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon.
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:29 PM   #23
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As far as I am concerned it never should be double murder..
I respect your logical consistency.
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Old 04-06-2013, 05:27 PM   #24
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You're interjecting your interpretation into the argument, without even a shred of curiosity as to what the truth is.
He may or may not have curiosity. But obviously the makers of the video have already interjected their interpretation into the argument. He's just returning the favor.

This is an incredibly complex issue with a lot of subjectivity involved. It's extremely unlikely that this heavily-edited-and-set-to-somber-music YouTube video uses a few snippets of a single conversation to accurately convey the complete meaning and context of what's being discussed.

Given the clearly agenda-driven and emotional-appeal nature of the video, he's quite right to be skeptical of extrapolating a clear picture of the entire issue from these few crumbs of information.

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life as it enters this world? This isn't a religious argument, it's one based on common law. When a human being enters the world, it's a human and is entitled to the same basic rights as a 100 year old man. To say the mom has the right to murder her child because she NOW thinks it's a bad idea... fuk that.
And yet the decision to discontinue life support for a 100 year old man rests solidly with his spouse, family, and physician. It's a health care decision.

It's extremely plausible that the variables presented by the health, viability and legal status of the fetus/infant and the health status of the mother provide for an unfathomable range of possible situations.

Asking even the most highly informed, ethically motivated and practically experienced legislative body to pass laws that will provide for the best outcome in all such situations just isn't realistic. And, despite how rarely you and I agree on things, one thing we're both sure of is that very few legislators (never mind entire legislative bodies) are highly informed, ethically motivated and practically experienced.

Given the wide-ranging and complex nature of possible situations, Snow/PP may think what will provide the greatest % of positive outcomes is not for far-removed legislators to create policies that tell doctors and patients what they're legally compelled to do. Rather, they think the greatest % of positive outcomes will occur when "the woman, her family, and the physician" are allowed to make health care decisions.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:26 PM   #25
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:55 PM   #26
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Well yeah, obv. I'm just pretty liberal with the abortion stuff and even this shocks me. Oddly enough, these are the same types of people that want to incarcerate parents who spank their kids. GO figure
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And since human beings need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others (including the state as conservatives are so quick to point out) then let this human being survive on their own. Once they have entered the world, they are responsible for themselves. If this human being can't fend for themselves, than they die. You OK with that Chase? Or are your much ballyhooed "principles" of responsibility only applicable when they suit you?

Said it before and I'll say it again...The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon.
Should we take the lives of those who offer nothing to society? The degenerates? The takers? The criminals? We could then create a superior society.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:30 AM   #27
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Should we take the lives of those who offer nothing to society? The degenerates? The takers? The criminals? We could then create a superior society.
I know what you're getting at #racist
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:50 AM   #28
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And since human beings need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others (including the state as conservatives are so quick to point out) then let this human being survive on their own. Once they have entered the world, they are responsible for themselves. If this human being can't fend for themselves, than they die. You OK with that Chase? Or are your much ballyhooed "principles" of responsibility only applicable when they suit you?

Said it before and I'll say it again...The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon.
Oh ok so this is now a fend for yourself argument and I'm inconsistant because I find it reprehensible that someone would kill a just-born-baby.

Alright, well then since you're opposed to carry for those in need (the baby in this situation) on the grounds that someone should fend for themselves, I'm sure you're also fine with killing all those that are deemed drains on society (that produce less than they take in from the government).

Deal, we kill all the scum of the world causing problems and leaching off the system and I'll allow post birth abortions. How's that sound....
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:19 AM   #29
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I know what you're getting at #racist
How is this racist?

Criminals and scums come from all backgrounds.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:51 AM   #30
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How is this racist?

Criminals and scums come from all backgrounds.
I kid, I kid





































































kinda
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"You don’t burn books because they’re irrelevant. You burn books because you’re terrified that they’re not. You don’t muzzle people who have no audience. You muzzle people only when their voices are amplified far beyond your liking."

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Old 04-07-2013, 09:00 AM   #31
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An illegal immigrant can hop the fence, take a squat, and push out a baby. That baby needs to have all the protections of the law because they're part of the fastest growing voting bloc in the history of fast growing voting blocs.

Someone can wish to not have a baby, attempt to have it aborted, and it's born alive anyways. That baby should be smothered to death.

Seems legit.

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Old 04-07-2013, 10:00 AM   #32
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Why do republicans and libertarians want to end a woman's right to choose?
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:22 AM   #33
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Why do republicans and libertarians want to end a woman's right to choose?
I love how simple minded you are, it's actually cute...kinda like a kid with down syndrome.
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:29 PM   #34
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This is really no different than late-term abortions. While I am of the camp that would hope/prefer a woman never have a late-term abortion. If one is going to allow the abortion choice on principal, than late-term abortions come with the territory. You can't just take the upside of the deal. Every social option has its "dark side". It is rather like free speech, while I cannot stand the hateful speech the KKK, Nation of Islam, and others spew. I believe in free speech and, on principle, it includes speech I prefer didn't exist. Comes with territory.
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:08 PM   #35
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so the argument is no longer "what defines a LIFE" but now "whether you are self-sufficient and your mom wants you"

and the pendulum swings further...
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:03 PM   #36
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I love how simple minded you are, it's actually cute...kinda like a kid with down syndrome.
It is pretty simple - it's none of your fvcking business. Need me to break out the crayons?
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:43 PM   #37
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It is pretty simple - it's none of your fvcking business. Need me to break out the crayons?


Again...liberals are hostile...
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:22 PM   #38
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Again...liberals are hostile...
Next I'll try to tell you what you can and can't do with your vagina.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:12 AM   #39
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It is pretty simple - it's none of your fvcking business. Need me to break out the crayons?
You're just...really not smart
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:16 AM   #40
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And you're a fvcking Einstein.
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