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Old 04-12-2013, 12:03 PM   #1
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Regional Differences: Red State vs. Blue State, or...

Urban/Suburban vs. Rural?

While some posts have touched on this, I think there is a growing realization that a not insignificant aspect of political polarization is not necessarily Red State vs. Blue State, North vs. South, Coasts vs. Heartland but rather, Urban/suburban vs. Rural. In political discussions ranging from the overall role of government, taxation, regulation and now, gun control, the needs, experiences and thus policy preferences of urban/suburban America is often distinctly different from rural America.

Guns make a convenient proxy of this disparity, where rural Americans experience with guns -- sports and hunting along with self-protection in low-density areas -- is vastly different than the reality of guns for most urban and suburban folks -- crime, violence, accidents, etc. Here is an article in the WaPo on this very topic: Growth of suburbs in pro-gun states changing the political calculus in Congress.

Again though, guns is but just one aspect of this divergence, the overall role of government is another where relatively isolated rural dwellers prefer a small, light-footed government presence whereas densely populated urban/suburban dwellers see a much greater need and benefit for government services and influence. Interestingly, perhaps both are right in a way.

Thoughts?

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Old 04-12-2013, 01:09 PM   #2
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..the overall role of government is another where relatively isolated rural dwellers prefer a small, light-footed government presence.
When I think rural I picture farms. When I picture farms I picture subsidies. Rural reliance on Government is no different than Urban. They don't want the Government there when they don't need them, but they sure as hell love it when they come to their rescue when they need it.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:21 PM   #3
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When I think rural I picture farms. When I picture farms I picture subsidies. Rural reliance on Government is no different than Urban. They don't want the Government there when they don't need them, but they sure as hell love it when they come to their rescue when they need it.


So do suburbanites when they need the govt to pay for their kids college and coast dwellers when they need handouts after a hurricane and city dwellers need a new housing project.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:27 PM   #4
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So do suburbanites when they need the govt to pay for their kids college and coast dwellers when they need handouts after a hurricane and city dwellers need a new housing project.
No **** Sherlock. There is absolutely no difference on Government reliance. Simply because they don't want the same things at the same time doesn't negate the fact they both want something at all times.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:01 PM   #5
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No **** Sherlock. There is absolutely no difference on Government reliance. Simply because they don't want the same things at the same time doesn't negate the fact they both want something at all times.
You are assuming all rural Americans are farmers? From experience I can tell you, nope.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:03 PM   #6
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When I think rural I picture farms. When I picture farms I picture subsidies. Rural reliance on Government is no different than Urban. They don't want the Government there when they don't need them, but they sure as hell love it when they come to their rescue when they need it.
This is no different then the tired line that both the rich (via tax breaks) and poor (via handouts) take from the government.

There is a vast difference between subsidies for farmers who are out creating their livelihood and the inner city welfare kinds/queens/princes. There is also a large difference between asking for tuition assistance and asking for a check to buy an xbox while sitting on your ass.

It comes down to self reliance v. big brother. Do you want to create your freedoms, liberties, lifestyle, essentials, and tomorrow or do you want it provided by someone else. Unfortunately, those groomed in the inner city have been raised (and thus indoctrinated) into a world where their failures are the fault of someone else and their free assistance isn't sufficient... the continued blame game goes on and on.

But of course, there are fundamental differences in needs between those in suburbia and those in the cities (or those on farms). No different than NYC needs are different from the majority of the state.. regardless, we have to do the best we can to come to a middle ground.. unfortunately, the middle ground seems to far too often be to cater to the inner cities wants.. Obamacare was a great example. Continued government expansion, growth, jobs, etc.. the behemoth keeps getting bigger and bigger and to speak out against it doesn't mean you're in favor of a small government.. it means you're against helping (insert some pity party group here).
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:07 PM   #7
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Holy ****... are you two really fixated on the one example I gave. How one dimensional is your thinking? Just like urban centers, rural dwellers also find themselves on food stamps, welfare assistance, social security and a multitude of other federally and state funded programs.

I grew up in the rural south. I now live in an urban center. Both advocate for small Government where they don't want the Government. Both openly accept intervention when they need them.







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Old 04-12-2013, 03:28 PM   #8
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:39 PM   #9
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This is no different then the tired line that both the rich (via tax breaks) and poor (via handouts) take from the government.

There is a vast difference between subsidies for farmers who are out creating their livelihood and the inner city welfare kinds/queens/princes. There is also a large difference between asking for tuition assistance and asking for a check to buy an xbox while sitting on your ass.
Why should farmers feel entitled to subsidies that make them profitable? There are a good amount of farms out there that would go belly up if it weren't for Federal subsidies. Since you're Mr. Free Market, why should they receive anything?
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:41 PM   #10
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Holy ****... are you two really fixated on the one example I gave. How one dimensional is your thinking? Just like urban centers, rural dwellers also find themselves on food stamps, welfare assistance, social security and a multitude of other federally and state funded programs.

I grew up in the rural south. I now live in an urban center. Both advocate for small Government where they don't want the Government. Both openly accept intervention when they need them.






Come on, now.....not everyone in rural America is a farmer, but everyone in the inner city is a welfare queen. Get with the pictar.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:50 PM   #11
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^ where'd you grow up?
I moved around a lot. But North Carolina, Tennessee, Louisiana and Florida are on the list.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:55 PM   #12
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I moved around a lot. But North Carolina, Tennessee, Louisiana and Florida are on the list.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:59 PM   #13
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Why should farmers feel entitled to subsidies that make them profitable? There are a good amount of farms out there that would go belly up if it weren't for Federal subsidies. Since you're Mr. Free Market, why should they receive anything?
Why did we start farm subsidies? The great depression and the resulting legislation that followed? Who pressed for it? Big government fans.

Point being, there are multiple factors as to "why" you can argue for or against it.. Personally, I'd love a free market system but this is one example where it's tough to look at this singular event and play yes or no...

Regardless, I'm against most freebies regardless of who they go to. The largest problem with our impending fiscal reality is government assistance (everything from public education to welfare to medicare to medicaid).. as it sits, nobody wants to take an axe to any of these because of the political ramifications... we HAVE to figure out how to get around that.
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:44 PM   #14
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fuggin nomad
I was also born in a state and city that I never lived in.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:12 PM   #15
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When I think rural I picture farms. When I picture farms I picture subsidies. Rural reliance on Government is no different than Urban. They don't want the Government there when they don't need them, but they sure as hell love it when they come to their rescue when they need it.
But farms at least produce something no? (I don't agree with farm subsidies for the record, but it seems to me that farm subsidies are not the same as city handouts.)
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:14 PM   #16
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But farms at least produce something no?
If that's your justification for farm subsidies, then this should be accepted, as well.

Welfare contributes to GDP in a fairly direct and effective manor. Most of the money received goes right back into the economy to create more jobs.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:24 PM   #17
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If that's your justification for farm subsidies, then this should be accepted, as well.

Welfare contributes to GDP in a fairly direct and effective manor. Most of the money received goes right back into the economy to create more jobs.
Its not my justification at all, it was a question actually. One can argue that without subsidies certain crops would skyrocket in price since farmers would begin to grow only what pays them the most (rather than what the country needs) but I honestly don't know nearly enough about farming to debate the topic. I feel that subsidies are a bad thing across the board (be it for Tesla or for corn).
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:33 PM   #18
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I was also born in a state and city that I never lived in.
Were your parents jewel thieves?
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:35 PM   #19
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Were your parents jewel thieves?
lol, I've lived in a similar amount of places that he has (New Jersey, Florida, Missouri, Illinois and Egypt) and my parents were airline people.


I should invent a story though, jewel thief sounds interesting
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:38 PM   #20
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From my personal experience, I think one difference that can be attributed to the rural/urban differences is the basic differences in the way of life between the two. In the country you are more or less on your own. The police won't be at your house in 5 minutes. You have to drive yourself places. You can't have anything you want delivered to your house within an hour. You mind your own business, but neighbors help each other in times of need and there are substantial relationships formed in the smaller communities.

In the city you have access to so much service, so many things at your fingertips and so many people that you (I think) lose a bit of self-reliance when it comes to your most basic needs. You're used to people doing things for you, so you feel more natural letting government do the same. Also, there is less of a sense of community due to having so many people crammed into the same area. You may recognize people, but they essentially are strangers and people come and go like a revolving door.
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