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Old 04-08-2013, 02:38 PM   #61
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quoted for conflicting arguments.
Not sure I follow. High school ( at least back when I went) doesn't have subjects like liberal arts, women's studies, sociology, etc. They were basic science, history, math, english, and a language. I think those subjects are beneficial to a child. The stuff taught in upper level education are often not.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:39 PM   #62
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LOL 31 people out of 7 billion people, what does that probability look like?

Apprentice is a reality show, they are scripted.
The show is scripted, the contestants were not. I know Robin (Trump's ex assistant) very well.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:40 PM   #63
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LOL 31 people out of 7 billion people, what does that probability look like?

Apprentice is a reality show, they are scripted.
Hence why I stated they are extreme examples. I know many restaurant owners that started out when others were in college. They make a very nice living. Some sell cell phone junk at malls and do well. Again, if you have the motivation to go out there and do something with yourself, you will succeed, college or not.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:41 PM   #64
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Again, for me, this chart is far too broad. I understand that there is no other way to graph this statistic, but in reality, a person with a highschool diploma CAN achieve success, if they are a motivated person.
too broad? this is a survey done by the gov't with a sample size larger than 1 person.

You need to have some evidence to back up your claim, otherwise its salacious.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:43 PM   #65
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The show is scripted, the contestants were not. I know Robin (Trump's ex assistant) very well.
They still have to interview people with some sort of intelligence.

If your source is not a producer than i dont see how you can believe it.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:45 PM   #66
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They still have to interview people with some sort of intelligence.

If your source is not a producer than i dont see how you can believe it.
Im not saying they weren't handpicked, I just meant they are not actors that's all.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:47 PM   #67
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too broad? this is a survey done by the gov't with a sample size larger than 1 person.

You need to have some evidence to back up your claim, otherwise its salacious.
I thought this was pretty interesting....
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0202/060.html


It's hard for me to come up with evidence which showcases the above average (to compete with your graphs.) My example earlier shows that some of the richest people in the world aren't college grads. My point (my original point) is that college is not a surefire path to success. Success lies within the person. A motivated person will find success, while a lazy person (even if they graduate college) won't go very far in life.

Like I said, too broad. College grad is too broad. Engineers will have great success, while college grads with women's studies majors usually won't outearn a bricklayer. Both sides of the fence IMHO are simply too broad. It's a fine statistic for an "average" but I'm not talking about average people. Average people live average lives, earn an average wage, and no one is dying to hire an "average" person anyway.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:48 PM   #68
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Hence why I stated they are extreme examples. I know many restaurant owners that started out when others were in college. They make a very nice living. Some sell cell phone junk at malls and do well. Again, if you have the motivation to go out there and do something with yourself, you will succeed, college or not.
Well this is pretty obvious, because jobs are not just handed out to people after graduation.

I understand what you mean and I am not trying to be a dick, but dont try to argue about how school is pointless, even though theres plenty of evidence that says otherwise.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:53 PM   #69
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I thought this was pretty interesting....
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0202/060.html


It's hard for me to come up with evidence which showcases the above average (to compete with your graphs.) My example earlier shows that some of the richest people in the world aren't college grads. My point (my original point) is that college is not a surefire path to success. Success lies within the person. A motivated person will find success, while a lazy person (even if they graduate college) won't go very far in life.

Like I said, too broad. College grad is too broad. Engineers will have great success, while college grads with women's studies majors usually won't outearn a bricklayer. Both sides of the fence IMHO are simply too broad. It's a fine statistic for an "average" but I'm not talking about average people. Average people live average lives, earn an average wage, and no one is dying to hire an "average" person anyway.
Quoted from the article:

Quote:
Census figures show that college grads earn an average of $57,500 a year, which is 82% more than the $31,600 high school alumni make. Multiply the $25,900 difference by the 40 years the average person works and, sure enough, it comes to a tad over $1 million.
That does not include a scaling income, so the net income would well over
$1 million.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:54 PM   #70
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Quoted from the article:



That does not include a scaling income, so the net income would well over
$1 million.
Yea... but did they mention construction workers... and not the ones at Home Depot looking for work?
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:58 PM   #71
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Well this is pretty obvious, because jobs are not just handed out to people after graduation.

I understand what you mean and I am not trying to be a dick, but dont try to argue about how school is pointless, even though theres plenty of evidence that says otherwise.
I never said school is "pointless." I simply stated that school may not the the right choice for everyone. College+Grad school IMHO is no longer "school" in the traditional sense, but rather an investment (currently a LARGE investment) in yourself and your future. For some, it is a wise investment. For others, it is a very poor investment. I made a lot of bad choices in my life. During some of my college years, I bartended. I made a lot of money. I spent a lot of it paying tuition (so that I didn't have any loans). Later on in life, I have a good and stable job, but, if instead of school I invested that money I earned from bartending into my own restaurant, real estate, gold, whatever, I would be in a MUCH better financial position. Now that I have a family, those doors are not as easy to walk through. Opening a restaurant takes more money. I passed up an opportunity which in my personal case, was a mistake. You live and learn, and I give people (that ask) advice based on my personal experience. One needs to really sit down and think it over, and not go to college because "that's what you are supposed to do." You have to see a few years down the road and really see if it is a worthwhile investment.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:01 PM   #72
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Yea... but did they mention construction workers... and not the ones at Home Depot looking for work?
It's honestly not construction workers. Hell, career big city waiters will outearn the average college grad.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:03 PM   #73
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My friend got in to the marine corps with a fake high school diploma.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:04 PM   #74
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I never said school is "pointless." I simply stated that school may not the the right choice for everyone. College+Grad school IMHO is no longer "school" in the traditional sense, but rather an investment (currently a LARGE investment) in yourself and your future. For some, it is a wise investment. For others, it is a very poor investment. I made a lot of bad choices in my life. During some of my college years, I bartended. I made a lot of money. I spent a lot of it paying tuition (so that I didn't have any loans). Later on in life, I have a good and stable job, but, if instead of school I invested that money I earned from bartending into my own restaurant, real estate, gold, whatever, I would be in a MUCH better financial position. Now that I have a family, those doors are not as easy to walk through. Opening a restaurant takes more money. I passed up an opportunity which in my personal case, was a mistake. You live and learn, and I give people (that ask) advice based on my personal experience. One needs to really sit down and think it over, and not go to college because "that's what you are supposed to do." You have to see a few years down the road and really see if it is a worthwhile investment.
So let me ask you this, are you going to tell your kids to not goto college?
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:07 PM   #75
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So let me ask you this, are you going to tell your kids to not goto college?
I won't tell them "don't go to college." That isn't my belief, and if that is what you are getting from my posts, then maybe we are misunderstanding each other. If my daughter tells me "dad, I want to open a restaurant." If she is serious, I would indeed advise her to work at a restaurant for a number of years, learn practical, on the job experience, have her live at home so she can save up her money and have some starting capital, and then help her open her own restaurant. If she wants to go to culinary school, great. If she is a self taught chef, great. I will advise her as best I can and steer her in the right direction. If she tells me that she wants to be a spinal surgeon, I obviously won't talk her out of college.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:11 PM   #76
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I won't tell them "don't go to college." That isn't my belief, and if that is what you are getting from my posts, then maybe we are misunderstanding each other. If my daughter tells me "dad, I want to open a restaurant." If she is serious, I would indeed advise her to work at a restaurant for a number of years, learn practical, on the job experience, have her live at home so she can save up her money and have some starting capital, and then help her open her own restaurant. If she wants to go to culinary school, great. If she is a self taught chef, great. I will advise her as best I can and steer her in the right direction. If she tells me that she wants to be a spinal surgeon, I obviously won't talk her out of college.
those are two extremes with easy answers. i think the more interesting question would be: what if your kid was a typical high school senior with average grades and didnt have any specific aspirations or career goals? still no college?
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:13 PM   #77
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those are two extremes with easy answers. i think the more interesting question would be: what if your kid was a typical high school senior with average grades and didnt have any specific aspirations or career goals? still no college?
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:14 PM   #78
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those are two extremes with easy answers. i think the more interesting question would be: what if your kid was a typical high school senior with average grades and didnt have any specific aspirations or career goals? still no college?
exactly.

I understand NFR's point but most people are not go-getter self motivated people with the potential to become a millionaire. If you want a safe bet, you go to college. It's as simple as that.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:17 PM   #79
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those are two extremes with easy answers. i think the more interesting question would be: what if your kid was a typical high school senior with average grades and didnt have any specific aspirations or career goals? still no college?
To be honest with you, that's a tough call. I think shoving the kid into college when they are "trying to find themselves" is again, a poor financial investment. I think the kid would be better served if dad lays down the law, and tells them "ok, you don't know what you want to do with yourself, fine. GET A JOB." Let the kid work. Let them get a taste of the real world. Let them find something that interests them. Let them grow up a little more and mature, so that when they actually go to college, they will actually gain something from it, rather than learning how to chug a keg without spilling anything on your passed out buddy with a sharpied penis on his cheek.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:19 PM   #80
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exactly.

I understand NFR's point but most people are not go-getter self motivated people with the potential to become a millionaire. If you want a safe bet, you go to college. It's as simple as that.
Thats a fair point. The problem is, the non go getters usually go to college, don't major in anything worthwhile, and end up in debt. This debt is then a ball and chain on them for a LONG time. At the core, I agree with you. A kid who isn't a go-getter will just play PS3 all day if not kept busy, so college is the smarter bet. You must also consider that the kid will just sleep in his dorm room, barely pass his classes, while scoring major debt. Usually lazy comes across in any and every scenario.
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