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Old 04-11-2013, 03:03 PM   #1
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Rand Paul faces Howard University

Interesting tactic to try to break on through. He also, in my opinion, made some really good arguments and points. Unfortunately, the delusional race baiters also made an appearance.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...niversity.html
Quote:
'We'll have to see what the Howard students thought,' Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul shouted from an elevator Wednesday afternoon, answering MailOnline's question about whether his foray into winning the hearts and minds of black youths was successful.

Paul, a Republican darling who is already laying the groundwork for a 2016 presidential run with a coming appearance in New Hampshire, had just wrapped up a two-hour appearance at the Howard University School of Business.

Howard is among the U.S. colleges classified as 'historically black,' and the audience of approximately 300 included few white faces apart from those belonging to reporters.

'Some have said that I'm either brave or crazy to be here today,' Paul told the students, acknowledging the seeming incongruity of a Republican competing openly for the support of young African-Americans.

'I've never been one to watch the world go by without participating. I wake up each day hoping to make a difference,' he said.

Brian Menifee, a Howard student, unfurled a banner in the middle of Paul's remarks that indicated how much of an uphill climb Republicans have in front of them.

'Howard University Doesn't Support White Supremacy,' the banner read, a picture of which was taken outside by a Huffington Post reporter.

Campus police tackled him and released him outside the building, but the audience heard him shouting 'Yo, get the f--- off of me!' as he was led away.
Manifee said after the event that police 'threw me to the ground.'

'I wasn't saying that Paul is a white supremacist,' he told MailOnline. 'But he's the product of white privilege, so take that for whatever you think it means. It takes some real you-know-what for a white Republican to come here and speak.'


Asked if he had ever protested a white Democratic speaker with the same banner, Manifee replied, 'Well, no. We just made the banner for this event. But Bill Clinton was the last - maybe the only - white Democrat to show up at Howard and talk to us like we were grown-ups.'
In that light, Paul's appearance was especially ground-breaking. He took questions about mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent drug offenders, and earned his biggest applause of the day by declaring that a 'one size fits all' approach to federal prison sentences puts young blacks at an unfair disadvantage.
'Our federal mandatory minimum sentences are simply heavy handed and arbitrary,' he said. 'They can affect anyone at any time, though they disproportionately affect those without the means to fight them.
'We should stand and loudly proclaim enough is enough. We should not have laws that ruin the lives of young men and women who have committed no violence.'
But while he supports Kentucky's recent move to legalize the industrial production of dope, he said, he doesn't endorse illicit use of marijuana.
'I think if you use it too much, you will lose IQ points,' Paul insisted, only half-joking.
'I think if you use it too much, you won't show up for class. I think you'll eat too many Doritos.'
Paul's larger societal point, though, was about the Republicans' failure to articulate what he said was a proud history of blazing civil-rights trails in ways that benefited blacks.
Most of the founders of the NAACP, he reminded the students, were republicans.


And it was racists in government - not nameless, faceless, Klansmen - who were most responsible for keeping black voters away from the polls through two-thirds of the twentieth century.
'The history of African-American repression in this country rose from government-sanctioned racism,' Paul explained. 'Jim Crow laws were a product of bigoted state and local governments.'
'Big and oppressive government has long been the enemy of freedom, something black Americans know all too well. We must always embrace individual liberty and enforce the constitutional rights of all Americans-rich and poor, immigrant and native, black and white.'
The GOP, he continued, was the party of Abraham Lincoln and emancipated slaves.
'How did that party become the party that now loses 95 per cent of the African-American vote?'
Republicans, he said, 'face a daunting task. Several generations of black voters have never voted Republican and are not very open to even considering the option.'
'Democrats still promise unlimited federal assistance and Republicans promise free markets, low taxes, and less regulations that we believe will create more jobs.'
'The Democrat promise is tangible and puts food on the table,' he conceded, 'but too often doesn't lead to jobs or meaningful success.'
'The Republican promise is for policies that create economic growth. Republicans believe lower taxes, less regulation, balanced budgets, a solvent Social Security and Medicare will stimulate economic growth.'
My favorite part of the night (video in link)

http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2...o_help_me.html

Quote:
Howard University student to Sen. Rand Paul: "Good afternoon, Senator. My name is Keenan Glover, I'm an administration of justice major from Rochester, New York. A freshman, as well. You say you want to provide a government that leaves us alone. Quite frankly, I don't want that. I want a government that is going to help me. I want a government that is going to help me fund my college education. I want a government that won't define me by my FAFSA or by my family's income. I'm a dollar sign with a heartbeat in this nation. This society is a mirror image of Capitol Hill. Do you, Senator Rand Paul, have a solution to come up with new American values so that the citizens of this nation have a worth of more than dead presidents and Ben Franklin?"


Rand's response was well put.
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:43 PM   #2
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He should have asked them which party filibustered the '64 civil rights act. See how smart these kids really are.

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Old 04-11-2013, 03:47 PM   #3
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Interesting tactic to try to break on through. He also, in my opinion, made some really good arguments and points. Unfortunately, the delusional race baiters also made an appearance.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...niversity.html


My favorite part of the night (video in link)

http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2...o_help_me.html





Rand's response was well put.
So you obvisiously disagree with Glover's view as the role of government. How do you view the role of government? What responsibility does the government have to its people?

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Old 04-11-2013, 04:06 PM   #4
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The OP is race baiting. Ironic.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:22 PM   #5
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He should have asked them which party filibustered the '64 civil rights act. See how smart these kids really are.
Who cares about that? The modern Republican Party absorbed the disaffected Dixiecrats as part of Nixon's southern strategy in the 70s. The Republican Party can trace its roots back to Lincoln, but the party has changed drastically since then.

A white man going into a black audience and reminding them that a Republican politician freed their ancestors 150 years ago is the epitome of bad taste. This is the kind of tone-deafness that absolutely kills Republicans in the battle to control the news cycle.

Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:53 PM   #6
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Who cares about that? The modern Republican Party absorbed the disaffected Dixiecrats as part of Nixon's southern strategy in the 70s. The Republican Party can trace its roots back to Lincoln, but the party has changed drastically since then.

A white man going into a black audience and reminding them that a Republican politician freed their ancestors 150 years ago is the epitome of bad taste. This is the kind of tone-deafness that absolutely kills Republicans in the battle to control the news cycle.

Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
What's more racist, trying to end entitlement programs that primarily help minorities or intentionally keeping minorities on entitlement programs to ensure votes?

What's more racist, believing that hard work can make a difference or telling people that the game is rigged, you can't win and you need to be taken care of?

In my opinion, soft racism aka treating blacks and minorities like helpless inept children, is far more demeaning and racist to the bone.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #7
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In my opinion, soft racism aka treating blacks and minorities like helpless inept children, is far more demeaning and racist to the bone.
Kind of like Chris Hissyfit Matthews being full of shock and awe that a black presidential candidate could form a complete sentence.

He speaks so well...He speaks the king's english!

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Old 04-11-2013, 05:52 PM   #8
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Who cares about that? The modern Republican Party absorbed the disaffected Dixiecrats as part of Nixon's southern strategy in the 70s. The Republican Party can trace its roots back to Lincoln, but the party has changed drastically since then.

A white man going into a black audience and reminding them that a Republican politician freed their ancestors 150 years ago is the epitome of bad taste. This is the kind of tone-deafness that absolutely kills Republicans in the battle to control the news cycle.

Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
You're right, they suck at conveying that message. I'm more curious if these fine college kids actually know history. I'm willing to bet they don't.

I love your broad brush btw.

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Old 04-11-2013, 05:52 PM   #9
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What's more racist, trying to end entitlement programs that primarily help minorities or intentionally keeping minorities on entitlement programs to ensure votes?

What's more racist, believing that hard work can make a difference or telling people that the game is rigged, you can't win and you need to be taken care of?

In my opinion, soft racism aka treating blacks and minorities like helpless inept children, is far more demeaning and racist to the bone.
And which entitlement programs primarily help minorities. Certainly not welfare. There are more non-hispanic whites on welfare than there are hispanics or blacks.

Just because a game is rigged doesn't mean you can't win, it just makes it much harder to win. (I guess you have never rigged a game with unbalanced dice or worked a midway.)
If you think the game is not rigged, just by base economics alone...forget about race, you are clearly delusional.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:57 PM   #10
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There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
This coming from a supply-side econ, free-market worshiper, like you Rapier7. I am shocked.

If you can't effectively market and sell your product it isn't a winning product. You can have the greatest product in the world, if nobody buys it, it isn't a winning product.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:09 PM   #11
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And which entitlement programs primarily help minorities. Certainly not welfare. There are more non-hispanic whites on welfare than there are hispanics or blacks.

Just because a game is rigged doesn't mean you can't win, it just makes it much harder to win. (I guess you have never rigged a game with unbalanced dice or worked a midway.)
If you think the game is not rigged, just by base economics alone...forget about race, you are clearly delusional.
The game isn't rigged. You don't need to be a CEO to win. You don't need to be in the 1% to win. Why can't you people get that through your heads?

Anyone that works hard can be self-sufficient and moderately successful. I'd wager that in 2013 being a bright hard-working minority gets you to the front of the line just about everywhere in fact.

There's more whites on welfare? OMG NO WAY, you cracked the case wide open Matlock
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:14 PM   #12
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If you can't effectively market and sell your product it isn't a winning product. You can have the greatest product in the world, if nobody buys it, it isn't a winning product.
Like solyndra.

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Old 04-11-2013, 07:20 PM   #13
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What's more racist, trying to end entitlement programs that primarily help minorities or intentionally keeping minorities on entitlement programs to ensure votes?
This gets parroted on the right all the ****ing time, but there are two huge problems with this kind of belief:

1. There is no proof that the Democrats/progressives are "intentionally keeping minorities on entitlement programs to ensure votes". Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Give a specific example where a current, high ranking Democratic politician has admitted it and maybe this statement will be more credible. Otherwise it just makes you look like a huge, out of touch, privileged asshole.

2. Even if it was true, you're still running into the problem of trying to reduce a massive, popular entitlement. I want to eliminate Social Security and Medicare, but it's politically untouchable. Tens of millions of people are already on it. Hundreds of millions more have planned their retirement around these two programs.

Like it or not, we can't reduce SNAP or TANF or the EITC, or any other major entitlement that every poor American family takes advantage of. At the Federal level, there is no entitlement program designed specifically for minorities (with the exception of the programs under the Bureau of Indian Affairs). If minorities are disproportionately benefiting from these programs, it's worth taking a look at why it is instead of just eliminating the program and hoping for the best.

Quote:
What's more racist, believing that hard work can make a difference or telling people that the game is rigged, you can't win and you need to be taken care of?

In my opinion, soft racism aka treating blacks and minorities like helpless inept children, is far more demeaning and racist to the bone.
You're doing a great job making yourself look like another uncaring, out-of-touch Republican. It is extremely patronizing and off putting for a successful white American (I'm assuming you're white, and I'll be extremely shocked if you aren't) to go to a black college and say "all you need to succeed in life is hard work".

Let me ask you a question. Do you think those black college students and their parents think they're lazy and not hard workers? Odds are they think that they're very hard working and they've been working so hard for so long and yet they still find themselves on the margins of society. For you to say "hard work makes a difference" to them is just so incredibly condescending and it rings so false to them because they've been doing what they're told and working hard and yet they're still poor.

They're not going to believe a word you say and neither would I. I'm successful because I was born into a good family, made smart, informed decisions and I'm intelligent. I'm one of the laziest people I know and I'm almost the opposite of nose-to-the-grindstone at work. That's my story of success in America. And for a lot of white Americans, it's the same exact story. The hardest working people are often the poorest in society.

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Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
The game isn't rigged. You don't need to be a CEO to win. You don't need to be in the 1% to win. Why can't you people get that through your heads?

Anyone that works hard can be self-sufficient and moderately successful. I'd wager that in 2013 being a bright hard-working minority gets you to the front of the line just about everywhere in fact.
**** you.

Hang on, I should probably give something more substantive.

Sure, you don't need to be a CEO or be in the 1%. But what do most Americans need to succeed in America? Relatively affluent and educated parents. And, in case you haven't noticed, that is completely out of most people's hands. We can't choose who we're born to or where we're born. If my parents stayed in China, at best I'd be a midlevel government bureaucrat making a third of what I'm making now.

A black kid who grows up in the ghetto to a single mom who's a drug addict has a very low chance of "making it" because the passive capital available to him is so much less than the passive capital available to a white kid born to two educated, well-off parents in a good neighborhood with low crime. If you can't see how that is the primary factor in determining how successful any given individual is, then you're hopeless.

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You're right, they suck at conveying that message. I'm more curious if these fine college kids actually know history. I'm willing to bet they don't.
You think those college kids give a **** about history? They care about getting an education so that they can get a good job once they're out in the real world. Whichever political party they perceive as furthering that interest is going to be the party that gets their vote. Politics is exactly like sports. What have you done for me lately? As far as they're concerned, the only thing the Republicans have done for them is make them wait longer in line to vote.

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This coming from a supply-side econ, free-market worshiper, like you Rapier7. I am shocked.

If you can't effectively market and sell your product it isn't a winning product. You can have the greatest product in the world, if nobody buys it, it isn't a winning product.
Semantical argument aside, what are you talking about? I do believe that you can sell free market ideals to minorities and poor people. The problem isn't what we're selling. It's how we're selling it.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:30 PM   #14
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I heard that Rand Paul got his ass handed to him by some lowly history-ignorant black college kid.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:12 PM   #15
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Rand Paul had good intentions, but his game plan was shitty. And part of the reason why is because he is a person of great privilege who isn't used to talking to people who have faced a lot more adversity growing up than most white people in the country.

There is a winning Republican message that can be made to blacks and other minorities. But the Republican Party, for a host of reasons, can't effectively market that message.
**** that, to assume only people other than Caucasin can face adversity is absurd. Additionally, Rand was speaking to a group of people who are privileged enough to attend college so either they had good parents or the kids figured out the what **** is really going in the world and made that college happen on their own, right?
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:14 PM   #16
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This gets parroted on the right all the ****ing time, but there are two huge problems with this kind of belief:

1. There is no proof that the Democrats/progressives are "intentionally keeping minorities on entitlement programs to ensure votes". Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Give a specific example where a current, high ranking Democratic politician has admitted it and maybe this statement will be more credible. Otherwise it just makes you look like a huge, out of touch, privileged asshole.

2. Even if it was true, you're still running into the problem of trying to reduce a massive, popular entitlement. I want to eliminate Social Security and Medicare, but it's politically untouchable. Tens of millions of people are already on it. Hundreds of millions more have planned their retirement around these two programs.

Like it or not, we can't reduce SNAP or TANF or the EITC, or any other major entitlement that every poor American family takes advantage of. At the Federal level, there is no entitlement program designed specifically for minorities (with the exception of the programs under the Bureau of Indian Affairs). If minorities are disproportionately benefiting from these programs, it's worth taking a look at why it is instead of just eliminating the program and hoping for the best.


You're doing a great job making yourself look like another uncaring, out-of-touch Republican. It is extremely patronizing and off putting for a successful white American (I'm assuming you're white, and I'll be extremely shocked if you aren't) to go to a black college and say "all you need to succeed in life is hard work".

Let me ask you a question. Do you think those black college students and their parents think they're lazy and not hard workers? Odds are they think that they're very hard working and they've been working so hard for so long and yet they still find themselves on the margins of society. For you to say "hard work makes a difference" to them is just so incredibly condescending and it rings so false to them because they've been doing what they're told and working hard and yet they're still poor.

They're not going to believe a word you say and neither would I. I'm successful because I was born into a good family, made smart, informed decisions and I'm intelligent. I'm one of the laziest people I know and I'm almost the opposite of nose-to-the-grindstone at work. That's my story of success in America. And for a lot of white Americans, it's the same exact story. The hardest working people are often the poorest in society.


**** you.

Hang on, I should probably give something more substantive.

Sure, you don't need to be a CEO or be in the 1%. But what do most Americans need to succeed in America? Relatively affluent and educated parents. And, in case you haven't noticed, that is completely out of most people's hands. We can't choose who we're born to or where we're born. If my parents stayed in China, at best I'd be a midlevel government bureaucrat making a third of what I'm making now.

A black kid who grows up in the ghetto to a single mom who's a drug addict has a very low chance of "making it" because the passive capital available to him is so much less than the passive capital available to a white kid born to two educated, well-off parents in a good neighborhood with low crime. If you can't see how that is the primary factor in determining how successful any given individual is, then you're hopeless.
wow, Azn jimmies rustled. My family came here with nothing. My parents didn't go to college. One (immigrant) grandfather was a bartender, the other (immigrant) ran a junk shop. Yes, I'm so privileged...douche.

Look up the soft racism of lowered expectations, this isn't something I just made up.

I'm not even talking about any specific entitlements. I'm talking about the general entitlement society we have created, fostered and expanded since President Johnson.

The fact that those kids are going to college probably means they will be better off than the average black in America. Those are the exact kids that can go far with hard work. The last thing they need (or anyone) is pretentious clueless academics telling them that without government they can't make it. You're doing the same thing.

A black kid growing up in the ghetto with a drug addict single mom has the same chance as a white kid growing up in the sticks with a drug addict single mom. This has nothing to do with color, except you want it to be nothing but color. I find it insulting that you assume that every white kid is well off and could never face the adversity of a poor minority. Looks like you harbor some serious biases, you should talk to someone about it.

Oh yeah, how about Rand Paul's (correct) argument that "free" education makes education unaffordable? Are you able to comprehend this?

It's cool, though, you have minority cred. You must be really proud.

edit: Continuing thought, we've been throwing money at the problems you brought up for decades. Nothing changes, nothing gets better. The progressive solution? MORE money. Get the hint, it isn't about money. You can transfer all the wealth you want but if the culture or mindset of poor people doesn't change it won't make a difference. There's a reason most lottery winners go broke in a year or two.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:15 PM   #17
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**** that, to assume only people other than Caucasin can face adversity is absurd. Additionally, Rand was speaking to a group of people who are privileged enough to attend college so either they had good parents or the kids figured out the what **** is really going in the world and made that college happen on their own, right?
lol apparently he didn't realize these were all college students and not crack babies.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:22 AM   #18
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**** that, to assume only people other than Caucasin can face adversity is absurd. Additionally, Rand was speaking to a group of people who are privileged enough to attend college so either they had good parents or the kids figured out the what **** is really going in the world and made that college happen on their own, right?
Nail. On head.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
The game isn't rigged. You don't need to be a CEO to win. You don't need to be in the 1% to win. Why can't you people get that through your heads?
You still don't understand what it is to rig a game. The game is rigged. The more money you start out with, the better your chances of success. Conversely, the less money you start out with, the lower your chances of success.

You (and the GOP) need to get that through your heads. As soon as you understand, yes, the system is rigged. That doesn't mean auto-failure. But it does mean those on the bottom are more likely to stay on the bottom. It means that if the kid who starts out in the economic bottom 20% works as hard as the kid who starts out in the economic top 20%, chances are amazingly high that the kid that started out in the top 20% is going to fair better, even if they work equally as hard. That is how the system works. If you start near the bottom of the economic ladder, your best chance is just to try and do better and maybe your next generation can start out at the 30% or 50% mark on the economic ladder. Yeah, there are going to be those that "land on chance or the community chest" and make that economic leap in a single generation. But, those odds are slim. (Lets face it, they are.)

The game is rigged. OK. So what. Accept that and then, and only then, can we move on from it. To continue to deny that its not is just as much a part of the problem.

When you go to a midway, you know the games are rigged. Does that stop you playing? For some people it does. For others, they look at how the game is rigged and how they can use their knowledge, skill, etc to shift the percentages back in their favor a bit.


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Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
There's more whites on welfare? OMG NO WAY, you cracked the case wide open Matlock
Just pointing out a fallacy of your statement.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:03 AM   #20
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Semantical argument aside, what are you talking about? I do believe that you can sell free market ideals to minorities and poor people. The problem isn't what we're selling. It's how we're selling it.
Have you ever sold directly? Retail? Knocking on doors, cold call type selling?

"The problem isn't what we're selling. It's how we're selling it."
Why is it I always hear that from people who are trying to sell an uncompetitive product. Politics is, in many the ways, the ultimate consumer selling experience. There are people knocking doors, cold calling, and trying to sell that product/candidate/political party in grocery store parking lots. Not to mention that in elections advertising is KING!!

Sometimes you have to except that consumers need to be coaxed away from your competition. You have to bring them around in steps. Throw an ipad over the tech wall in 1988 and it would have sunk like a stone. The consumer wouldn't want it because they didn't know they wanted it. You have to make them want it. And you have to have infrastructure in place to allow them to use it. How many people are going to hook their ipads up to a 1200 baud modem that they also carry around with them and a phone cord to go with it and a serial cable to connect the modem to the ipad. (And don't even get me started about data speeds) Apple tried that, it was called the newton, and.....it sunk like a rock.

Maybe you have a "great product". If the consumer doesn't buy it (and part of that may be how you are selling it) its not a great product. It might be a great idea/thing/innovation/etc. But, a great product its not.

Did you ever stop to think...maybe...just maybe...it is the product. It might not even be a bad idea or design, but, if its not selling chances are it is the product.
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