E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-16-2013, 03:17 PM   #1
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 98
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
Efficiency's Not Innovation

Promoting Efficiency And Promoting Innovation Are Different Things

"A visit to San Francisco over the past few days really crystalized in my head the important distinction between increased efficiency in the allocation of resources and fundamental innovation. Either can produce economic growth, but in the long-term it's the latter that matters most of all. But while conventional economics has a lot to teach us about efficiency I don't think economists really know much about innovation and they end up doing the world a disservice—and ultimately discrediting their own mastery of the subject they really do know—by confusing the two."

I've had some discourse with OPer's in other posts regarding what I believe is the of producing excellent product/services as the primary, preeminent and necessary means to "making money," and the making money is but a subsequent derivative and result of that rather than an end unto itself. The above piece I think makes a tangential point in that economic efficiency, while an important component to long term growth and prosperity, is but a secondary element in service to innovation and the resultant excellent product and services that results.

I think too much of today’s economic discourse and subsequent policy is far too cribbed and short sighted; focusing almost solely on short term efficiencies, austerity and spread-sheet analysis as opposed to a richer discussion of long term economic growth, simply presuming that will somehow come from economic efficiencies.

Of course, the trouble is that innovation doesn’t nicely, conveniently and neatly comport itself to numbers and spreadsheets that are the lifeblood of economists, thus it sort of gets dealt with as a messy asterisk rather than a critical element of economic vitality and prosperity. R&D, both nationally and in the corporate world are down, most of all very leading edge research science as opposed to the more "pragmatic" applied variety. Is Washington’s infatuation with austerity, despite its abysmal results in Europe and elsewhere, saving a penny today but forgoing a dollar tomorrow?

In the end, even the most exquisitely detailed and balanced accounts ledger is useless if it merely is in support of an inferior and outdated product. Relentless, austere tight-fistedness will, in and of itself, do nothing to produce a product or service anyone wants and indeed, may strangle the necessary innovations such product requires. At best, it may forestall demise but not foster and grow a future.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:22 PM   #2
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
There reaches a point of diminishing returns on efficiency where you're forced into a paradigm shift. So I would argue the lust for efficiency ultimately can drive innovation in some instance.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:30 PM   #3
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Williamsburg VA
Posts: 4,887
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
I'll already vented in the BMW thread but it's tough being in R&D/Product Development. A lot of folks are short-sighted and about the dollars earned today. I want to take risks and venture into new markets because I'm confident in my fellow engineers and capabilities and want to further expand our development portfolio. The tides are slowly changing though as we convince the naysayers and educate the doubters.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:31 PM   #4
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Williamsburg VA
Posts: 4,887
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
There reaches a point of diminishing returns on efficiency where you're forced into a paradigm shift. So I would argue the lust for efficiency ultimately can drive innovation in some instance.
It's almost necessary into today's markets
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:43 PM   #5
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 98
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
Quote:
So I would argue the lust for efficiency ultimately can drive innovation in some instance.
Just like whipping a tired and beaten mule all the harder will suddenly make it pull like a fresh Clydesdale full of oats. In most instances, you just end up with a skinny dead mule.

Last edited by Rhumb; 04-16-2013 at 03:44 PM.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:53 PM   #6
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
I'll already vented in the BMW thread but it's tough being in R&D/Product Development. A lot of folks are short-sighted and about the dollars earned today. I want to take risks and venture into new markets because I'm confident in my fellow engineers and capabilities and want to further expand our development portfolio. The tides are slowly changing though as we convince the naysayers and educate the doubters.
I'd love to tell you about a project our transmission group is working on but it's kind of super top secret and stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhumb View Post
Just like whipping a tired and beaten mule all the harder will suddenly make it pull like a fresh Clydesdale full of oats. In most instances, you just end up with a skinny dead mule.
I didn't realize we were speaking in generalities. In that case, you either sink or swim. Therefore if you do not innovate you die. The problem takes care of itself. Efficiency may prolong said death or provide enough time to sprout wings and take off with a new idea.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:59 PM   #7
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Williamsburg VA
Posts: 4,887
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
I'd love to tell you about a project our transmission group is working on but it's kind of super top secret and stuff.


I didn't realize we were speaking in generalities. In that case, you either sink or swim. Therefore if you do not innovate you die. The problem takes care of itself. Efficiency may prolong said death or provide enough time to sprout wings and take off with a new idea.
A lot of my work is confidential too. Mainly because I deal with polymers and innovative processes. The nerd inside me enjoys it through and through. You can pm me...I won't tell a soul. I'd sign a confidentiality agreement.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 10:38 AM   #8
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 98
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
And perhaps a slightly, tangentally related article here:

Taking the 'service' out of the service sector

Apparently arguing that the bean-counter's fixation on quantitative numbers and the resultant drive to pare down for maximum efficiencies has a dark downside in a service-based economy. Slashing service employees, while warming to a CEO's heart, generally results in, shocker, sub-par service, terrible employee morale, consumer dissatisfaction, and just generally worse service which, in a service-based company, ought to be the last thing one would want.

Myerson mentions the recent J.C. Penney experience where the new CEO, Ron Johnson, came in, slashed staff to dismal effect on sales and the bottom line. Wal Mart is also trotted out as a cautionary tale of slashing staff leading to poor service and performance, along with McDonalds.

In contrast, "Costco and Trader Joe's pay their workers far more than many of their competitors, offer their employees opportunities for promotion and enjoy markedly lower worker turnover and far higher sales per employee than their low-road counterparts. Sales per employee at Costco are nearly double that at Sam's Club."

Bottom line: once again, the myopic drive to slash costs on the spread sheet in order to maximize "efficiency" and "make" more money -- rather than providing excellent product and service for which they receive more money -- is in fact losing them money in the long run.

Last edited by Rhumb; 04-17-2013 at 10:50 AM.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 11:06 AM   #9
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
A lot of my work is confidential too. Mainly because I deal with polymers and innovative processes. The nerd inside me enjoys it through and through. You can pm me...I won't tell a soul. I'd sign a confidentiality agreement.
In a nutshell it's a new technology that will increase fuel economy, increases power and costs less to develop and manufacture than existing technology. It has huge implications for both suppliers and manufactures because it would provide us and our customers with a competitive advantage. While BMW is a customer of ours, we're designing the technology for two American platforms as part of phase one.

I need to staff roughly 15 engineers immediately and another 15 by the end of 2014. I was specifically told by the head of R&D not to mention the name of the technology. So I have to tailor questions as not to tip off what we're working on.
__________________

Last edited by casino is no lie; 04-17-2013 at 11:19 AM.
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 11:10 AM   #10
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Williamsburg VA
Posts: 4,887
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
In a nutshell it's a new technology that will decrease fuel economy, increases power and costs less to develop and manufacture than existing technology. It has huge implications for both suppliers and manufactures because it would provide us and our customers with a competitive advantage. While BMW is a customer of ours, we're designing the technology for two American platforms as part of phase one.

I need to staff roughly 15 engineers immediately and another 15 by the end of 2014. I was specifically told by the head of R&D not to mention the name of the technology. So I have to tailor questions as not to tip off what we're working on.
How many engineers does Continental have at the location you work? In a nutshell. That's a hell of a lot of engineers to hire within that time frame.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 11:17 AM   #11
SLVR JDM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Work
Posts: 1,519
My Ride: reclining rear seats
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
In a nutshell it's a new technology that will decrease fuel economy, increases power and costs less to develop and manufacture than existing technology. It has huge implications for both suppliers and manufactures because it would provide us and our customers with a competitive advantage. While BMW is a customer of ours, we're designing the technology for two American platforms as part of phase one.

I need to staff roughly 15 engineers immediately and another 15 by the end of 2014. I was specifically told by the head of R&D not to mention the name of the technology. So I have to tailor questions as not to tip off what we're working on.
Increasing power at the cost of fuel economy is nothing new.
__________________


** Removed **
SLVR JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 11:19 AM   #12
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
How many engineers does Continental have at the location you work? In a nutshell. That's a hell of a lot of engineers to hire within that time frame.
Not including interns, contractors and engineers who work in support functions (ex., purchasing, account management, etc.) I have 496 engineers working in my building. That's out of a total of 590 employees (not including interns or contractors).
__________________

Last edited by casino is no lie; 04-17-2013 at 11:20 AM.
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 11:20 AM   #13
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLVR JDM View Post
Increasing power at the cost of fuel economy is nothing new.
Nice catch. I made an edit to my original post to say "increase fuel economy."
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use