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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 04-18-2013, 03:02 AM   #81
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He's not used to being told "no". Every time he has failed to get what he wants, he and Biden immediately go out and start attacking people for lying, wanting children dead, etc. He is so convinced of his supreme intellect and righteousness that he believes that people should just listen to him because he's knows what's better for us than we do. We are simply just not as intelligent and well educated as him, and we should just trust him to do what's best for us. We don't need our rights, because the government is the solution to everything.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:44 AM   #82
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You make some good points.

To solve the issue with loaning guns, you could either create a government registration system- where you can loan a gun out like a car but liability is yours- or you could have a private industry insurance type of deal for gun owners that is mandated. Obviously- the insurance would require background checks to insure you in the first place. You could loan the gun out then I suppose.

Thoughts on that?
Hell. No.

I don't agree with registration one bit. I know a lot of people have the fear of "if we register the gun, it gives them more ammo to pass laws against X style gun and come get them" - that's only a mild concern of mine. (don't see it happening - but do see how it could happen.)

My biggest concern comes in with the availability of this database, and how will it be used? The states that already require some form of registration for certain guns have already shown how this system can be abused. Look at that dip-shit newspaper on Long Island that submitted a FOI act request, was granted, and then published NAMES & ADDRESSES of handgun owners to a searchable Google Maps platform. Several of the folks have been robbed or received different forms of threats since this was published. Look what happened in Illinois ~2 years ago - some dipshit newspaper submitted a FOI requesting the NAMES & ADDRESSES of all FOID (Firearm Owner ID) card holders in the state - this FOI act and the subsequent lawsuits all came down to ONE judge that denied the request. Had that been granted, at that time, my name & address could have been on someone's shit list as a house to explore...

That is my biggest fear - the mis-use of the database created for registration.

I also don't agree on the insurance aspect. No..No..No... Unless they're going to pay for the premium out of the taxes I already pay purchasing guns.

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Originally Posted by Redline View Post
^or you can just leave it as it is
This. The system truly is not broken.

My favorite lines from the Background Check debates are:


As Graham questioned Walsh, Flynn interjected: “I want to stop 75,000 people from buying guns illegally! That’s what a background check is.”

When Graham asked Flynn how many background check cases he had referred for prosecution, the chief snapped back: “We don’t chase paper, we chase armed criminals.”


What did he just admit there ^^^ ?? He admitted that until the person is actually out & about shooting people, they don't have time for that... They're all re-active police work, not pro-active. If they'd actually enforce laws that are already on the books, we wouldn't even have this conversation.

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Originally Posted by mattcarle21 View Post
All good points, and finally some substance here. So, it was a sure deal that you would need a check everytime you transfer? How long does the check last before it expires, and do they give you documentation? I could see maybe some card being made that needed to be renewed periodically, but yea that would be a pain. I mentioned in a different thread a while back that psychological tests should be done more so than background checks, so I agree there. I got jumped on for saying that though, but honestly I don't see how that could be a definite process that wasn't easily fooled either. The problem now is access, and really it's too late to fix that. There are so many guns out there, someone (with enough money) can get one. This problem is so difficult because we have to work at it in reverse. Honestly, it may be too late to have any real change now. Even looking at the future (if strict laws were in place) we would still have an enormous amount of guns out in circulation. Like you said it's in the psychology of the shooters. Background checks could catch the most obvious suspects, but as said before with enough money you can get a gun in other ways. Having thought about this for awhile, I really believe we are already in too deep. Everyone is not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but I do believe a public campaign made by these professionals would help. Similiar to the DARE campaign that got it out in public, it wouldn't hurt to have some kind of campaign that would help the general public look for signs of mentally instable people or dangerous patterns of behavior that could be reported. I know this could lead to a storm of infringements and profiling though. Any other ideas?
Current checks expire right away - something like 48 hours, and they are not allowed to be "saved". The only documentation they give is a pamphlet on how to change a false denial, or check into a denial. If it's "good" - you get a sales receipt and a shake on the hand...

I don't agree with Firearm Owner cards for the reasons I listed in reply to a quote above yours... I would also like to add the following points:

-In Illinois, they do require the Firearm Owner ID card, and it expires, but they wrote into the FOID laws that "by law" it can only take a maximum of 30 days to get your FOID application processed. In that waiting time, you cannot purchase or possess any form of firearm.

-An example of the FOID system failing, my father missed the first 3 days of deer season a few years back because his FOID expired before deer season, and it took them OVER their maximum return time to get his card back to him. At that point in time, they were close to a 60-day return time. Partly my dad's fault for not "thinking ahead" but largely the state's fault for violating their own FOID laws.


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The way I see it, is that people opposed to background checks are more afraid of the next piece of legislation going after guns. It doesn't appear that further background checks will end the gun control debate and they are worried that if you give them an inch (background checks), they will take a mile later on (gun registration, etc..). They don't want to begin down a slippery slope.
This is one of my fears also. Ever see that AT&T Commercial with the little kids... "I want more.... I want more" - several of the Senators involved in this legislation have been quoted that "this is only the start" and this fears me also...

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Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
I've said many times. I will concede to background checks if...

1)Gun laws are stripped from states, and become federal.
2)All guns, including 50cals, full autos, mini gattlers, etc are legal to own.
3) Background checks are done once, not everytime someone buys a gun. There is no reason to check weekly if the person was arrested. The systems can be united and scannable. The buyer pays to have the card issued to them, but the checks are free (since they will be computerized.)
4) CCW and open carrying become legal on every square inch of the country, except courts and other sensitive government buildings.
5) Law passed that the top 4 can't be messed with.

Give me those 5, and you can have your background checks.
Not all gun shops have computers (mine does, but only in back - and only for their GunBroker sales.)

I still don't agree with the ID system.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:31 AM   #83
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Everybody knew it would fail. The NRA owns too many republicans.
Democrats voted against it too.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:03 AM   #84
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I think everyone should own a gun! With that said, why would any of you not want there to be a proper background check? Even if it keeps one person from gaining easy access to a gun to go shoot at a crowd of people, then it's worth it, period end of story, and if you disagree well then your prob up to no good anyway.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:16 AM   #85
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My personal qualm and disagreement with it was it included family transfers. I would need the governments approval to give my son for example a gun?
Yea, what the heck, cuz I have never seen a grief stricken family saying 'I don't know why our son killed X and Y and himself, we had no idea he was capable of this."
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:23 AM   #86
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Government needs to be out evryone bussines.

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Old 04-18-2013, 09:29 AM   #87
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Yea, what the heck, cuz I have never seen a grief stricken family saying 'I don't know why our son killed X and Y and himself, we had no idea he was capable of this."
How does that become relevant that the government should decide what or who I give what to? If you want the government to run your life, that's your decision. I on the other hand don't believe they should have the power to decide whether or not I should be allowed to excercise my own rights. (Not just sell or give a gun to family or friend)
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:29 AM   #88
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He's not used to being told "no". Every time he has failed to get what he wants, he and Biden immediately go out and start attacking people for lying, wanting children dead, etc. He is so convinced of his supreme intellect and righteousness that he believes that people should just listen to him because he's knows what's better for us than we do. We are simply just not as intelligent and well educated as him, and we should just trust him to do what's best for us. We don't need our rights, because the government is the solution to everything.
You are so correct that I posted this to my facebook for others to read.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:35 AM   #89
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Yea, what the heck, cuz I have never seen a grief stricken family saying 'I don't know why our son killed X and Y and himself, we had no idea he was capable of this."
I've haven't seen a metric ton of grief stricken families saying I don't know why our 17yr old son drank and drove and killed 6 ppl...oh wait never mind.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:53 AM   #90
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:57 AM   #91
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You are paranoid if you think background checks will result in the government confiscating your weapons.

My comment about selfishness addressed many gun owners on this forum, not you specifically. You'd see that if you read it the way it was written

I googled the bill you listed and came up with only shady, not so great news sources (no I'm not referring to Fox) so I asked you. Thanks for educating me.
Background checks are common place, and required in many states already. NY state has long been one of the most stringent gun control states in the nation, and has recently tightened the issue (freedom) even more.

Here's a slippery slope example for everyone to think about. . .

After the new (un)SAFE ACT was passed by the cover of night and by Cuomo's "executive order to wave the mandatory minimum time to review new legislation," the personal freedoms of everyone, not just gun owners have been under fire, per se. I could go on and on about other NYS issues, but I won't.

Already at least two innocent, law abiding citizens have had their guns, wait for it, . . . CONFISCATED by the NYS Police! Their pistol permits were matched to some medical records that they just happened to have, that showed the had taken anti-depressants at one point in their lives. They were not criminals, had not threatened anyone, and didn't have anyone report them as unsafe. These are violations of the 4th and 5th amendments, as well as HIPAA.

After the instances went public and the individuals retained council, the NYS Police quickly back tracked and blamed the whole thing on the local municipalities, saying that they should have done their homework to verify they had the right guy. Low and behold, the police found a single name, sent that name to the counties that had a person by that name, and reported that their permits were here-by revoked, resulting in confiscation of guns in the possession of an owner without a permit. The scary thing is, it recently came out that the guy who they were looking for didn't have a pistol permit. . . so. . . what were they really trying to do here and where did they get their information?

The NYS police has since issued a summons to physicians to turn over all records pertaining to metal health. This isn't just those of gun owners, this is for ALL PATIENTS. . .That could be you!

All of this is easily verified by simple internet searches, if you don't believe me, you are more than welcome to do some research yourself.

There is no longer any paranoia about the government confiscating your weapons. NY is already testing the waters.

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Old 04-18-2013, 09:57 AM   #92
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How does that become relevant that the government should decide what or who I give what to? If you want the government to run your life, that's your decision. I on the other hand don't believe they should have the power to decide whether or not I should be allowed to excercise my own rights. (Not just sell or give a gun to family or friend)
His is the view of most modern extreme lefties. Prescribing to this notion that the government MUST exercise complete control of the behavior of the citizenry in an effort to protect them from themselves.

Thou shall not drink more than 32 ounces of soda (While also demanding that nationalized healthcare is the only solution to remaining healthy)
Thou shall not own a firearm (While also failing to provide security for citizens living in major cities)

It amazes me that these people put so much faith in a government...
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:40 AM   #93
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When someone can explain to me how enacting new laws regarding "gun control" would prevent a criminal from breaking existing laws making things like "murder" illegal, please let me know. Common sense pretty much says that if someone is willing to commit murder, theft probably isn't going to bother their moral compass.

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Old 04-18-2013, 11:08 AM   #94
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When someone can explain to me how enacting new laws regarding "gun control" would prevent a criminal from breaking existing laws making things like "murder" illegal, please let me know. Common sense pretty much says that if someone is willing to commit murder, theft probably isn't going to bother their moral compass.
This this this
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:02 PM   #95
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Wait a second... As I read this Fox article it seems the bill exempted personal transactions from background checks to appeal to people like y'all.

Quote:
The proposal would have expanded background checks to gun shows and Internet sales while exempting personal transactions. The amendment was aimed at winning over reluctant conservatives, who were opposed to the more stringent background check plan in the existing bill.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...s-on-gun-bill/
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:12 PM   #96
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Wait a second... As I read this Fox article it seems the bill exempted personal transactions from background checks to appeal to people like y'all.



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...s-on-gun-bill/
It basically attacked any private sale facilitated by an advertisement anywhere. That's a newspaper, magazine, Craigslist, e46fanatics, etc.

For instance, if I was to make a post in this forum saying I had a shotgun to sell. And another person decided they wanted it, current law would allow us to meet up in FL face to face and do the deal. No dealer/background check required. The new law would require us to pay a dealer for the transfer, pay for a background check, turn a 10 minute deal into one taking at least an hour, and for what? It's no different than if my neighbor across the street and I decide he wants my shotgun or rifle or handgun and we do a deal face to face.

The way they word the amendment attacks such private sales amongst individuals. Most of the time, yeah, we use some form of post or advertisement to facilitate things. The funny thing is that the bill doesn't actually define what constitutes an advertisement, so we don't know what the rules are entirely.

What they don't tell you is that true sales, from dealers, stores, etc. over the Internet ALREADY REQUIRE background checks and dealer transfers. With the limited exception of the Government's own Civilian Marksmanship Program, all firearms bought through a dealer or store online must be shipped to a local dealer near yourself where you undergo a background check and pay a transfer fee. They don't just magically show up in your mail without one.

They also don't tell you that sales from dealers at gun shows ALREADY REQUIRE background checks. All other sales at gun shows are simple consumer to consumer, face to face transactions that they then attempt to say will be exempted! It's total bullshit language. Anyone who knows anything about it and takes a second to really read it can see straight through it.

This is another example of people not reading between the lines and knowing what current laws actually do.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:44 PM   #97
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Yea, what the heck, cuz I have never seen a grief stricken family saying 'I don't know why our son killed X and Y and himself, we had no idea he was capable of this."
So how come we don't require background checks for kitchen knives? I've been to more stabbings by family members than anything else.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:14 PM   #98
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So how come we don't require background checks for kitchen knives? I've been to more stabbings by family members than anything else.
Or kitchen knife restrictions. Nobody needs a 6" knife for anything, a steak knife works just fine for cutting food.

Why do people need entire knife sets? Dangerous knife sets should be limited to one knife per household. Nobody uses two knifes at once anyways...

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Old 04-18-2013, 01:33 PM   #99
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No black handles. Assault bread knives are killing our children!!!
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:33 PM   #100
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No black handles. Assault bread knives are killing our children!!!
....electric knifes are the devil!
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