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Old 04-18-2013, 06:29 PM   #1
dabears
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Rippetoe Throws Down

When he speaks, its always worth listening in my opinion.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...oe_throws_down
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:11 PM   #2
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QOTD.... "History tells us what works in the gym, and everything else walks down the road with a carrot in its ass."

I ...

..and I'm stealing that quote. It is classic!


I also completely agree with the quote below where strength is concerned:

"Basic heavy barbell movements are what the strongest, biggest men of the past century have used to get that way. Assistance exercises are merely the things these men do in the gym after they've Trained, while they're resting."


My barbell work is the core of my program, and it is my primary concern. Nothing else matters to me until the barbell has been moved for as long as I want to move it, as many times as I want/need to move it.

P.S. Greg or Jeremy, can you post a video of you performing the Power Snatch? I'd love to see which techniques you guys are using to aid in that movement (...assuming that you PS).

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Old 04-18-2013, 09:43 PM   #3
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I loved his use of "train" vs "exercise"
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:13 PM   #4
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lol, that was a good read. I might print it and hang it up at my gym. I either see people who over-train (e.g. a guy does leg presses with 12-15 plates, then deadlifts, then squats, then walk-squats for a good 3-4 sets each 3 days a week), or dumbbell guys who don't do any compound movements other than bench presses. They all need to read this article!
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:28 AM   #5
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Good article. Wish more people read this stuff. I have a couple of comments.

Surprised DB bench presses was not on the list. I see it as a superior exercise to BB version. BB with squats, DLs, and OHPs of course is the way to go.

Why is body weight exercises like dips/chinups/pullups are not considered compound movements especially when extra weights are used?

Would not FBI know better for functional strength and agility, it uses pullups, pushups, and running as a base for agents' qualification.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:45 AM   #6
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Good article. Wish more people read this stuff. I have a couple of comments.

Surprised DB bench presses was not on the list. I see it as a superior exercise to BB version. BB with squats, DLs, and OHPs of course is the way to go.

Why is body weight exercises like dips/chinups/pullups are not considered compound movements especially when extra weights are used?

Would not FBI know better for functional strength and agility, it uses pullups, pushups, and running as a base for agents' qualification.
The DB bench press is NOT superior to a barbell bench press dude (..especially where RAW POWER AND STRENGTH are concerned). It is hard to take you seriously much of the time when you utter nonsense like that. If you have to ask about body weight exercises, I suggest you read Rippetoe's write-up over again. They are compound movements (..and they definitely have their place in the gym), but they aren't in the same category of compound movements like squats, dead lifts, etc....things that train the CNS and incorporate everything.

P.S. LOL @ using the FBI's choice of exercise as justification. Our police academies use the same approach (...although they are now transitioning over to CF style workouts), but those programs do NOT develop the body like a barbell weight training program.

P.P.S. I think you're destined to remain small forever.

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Old 04-19-2013, 09:04 AM   #7
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In Starting strength book (I think by the same author from the article) it says DB bench press is superior to BB version. DBs recruit more stabilizing muscle, allows each arm to work equally, safer (spotter not required), easier on the shoulders. I do both, but it's good which one to focus on. Just like shoulder presses, I do both seated with DBs, standing with BB.

Keep in mind big & strong does not equal agile & functional. Hence, FBI example.

I don't care for big, lean and strong is the goal. Big and not defined is actually is easy to achieve.

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The DB bench press is NOT superior to a barbell bench press dude (..especially where RAW POWER AND STRENGTH are concerned). It is hard to take you seriously much of the time when you utter nonsense like that. If you have to ask about body weight exercises, I suggest you read Rippetoe's write-up over again. They are compound movements (..and they definitely have their place in the gym), but they aren't in the same category of compound movements like squats, dead lifts, etc....things that train the CNS and incorporate everything.

P.S. LOL @ using the FBI's choice of exercise as justification. Our police academies use the same approach (...although they are now transitioning over to CF style workouts), but those programs do NOT develop the body like a barbell weight training program.

P.P.S. I think you're destined to remain small forever.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:16 AM   #8
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there is no progression possible with dumbbells. Think about it... most gyms go up to 100 lbs. That's 200 lbs for bench press... intermediate level.

Same goes with bodyweight exercises. When you add weight to it, there is progression possibility. But even still... the possibility doesn't even start to compare to the main lifts. There is a much smaller "progression window".

The only thing that makes any of the bench exercises easier on your shoulders is your form dude.

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Big and not defined is actually is easy to achieve.
you know this for a fact? have you been there before? that is such a naive comment. I'm of the opinion that shedding fat is MUCH easier than adding solid lean tissue.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:21 AM   #9
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DBs at my gym go to 150lbs, I'm still at 70-75lbs. So progression won't apply to me for a while.

I have done this with many friends, bring a guy who can BB bench press 300lbs, ask him to DB bench press, he'll have lame number. The inverse is false. DB guys will have higher numbers on BBs.

As far as getting big and fat, it's easier, just eat, sleep, and workout. But to be lean and big is much harder.

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there is no progression possible with dumbbells. Think about it... most gyms go up to 100 lbs. That's 200 lbs for bench press... intermediate level.

Same goes with bodyweight exercises. When you add weight to it, there is progression possibility. But even still... the possibility doesn't even start to compare to the main lifts. There is a much smaller "progression window".

The only thing that makes any of the bench exercises easier on your shoulders is your form dude.



you know this for a fact? have you been there before? that is such a naive comment. I'm of the opinion that shedding fat is MUCH easier than adding solid lean tissue.

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Old 04-19-2013, 10:31 AM   #10
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i think all you proved there was the fact that you can bench more than you can lift with dbs?

what stabilizer muscles are you referring to btw
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:33 AM   #11
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For strength training, DB exercises are considered accessories to fix your weak spots. As Rippetoe mentions in his article, strength guys exercise after they train. You won't build muscle with a 1RM doing any BB movement, but that's where everything will pay up.

Let's leave it at that. Different purposes for different equipment. Really no need to think that one is better than the other.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:41 AM   #12
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^ agreed
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:12 PM   #13
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well-written article, but how much does this apply to people like me that dont care about numbers?
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:15 PM   #14
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I think if you care about strength, it applies, I believe that was rips point. Otherwise you are just "exercising" not "training" by his definition.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z00 View Post
In Starting strength book (I think by the same author from the article) it says DB bench press is superior to BB version. DBs recruit more stabilizing muscle, allows each arm to work equally, safer (spotter not required), easier on the shoulders. I do both, but it's good which one to focus on. Just like shoulder presses, I do both seated with DBs, standing with BB.

Keep in mind big & strong does not equal agile & functional. Hence, FBI example.

I don't care for big, lean and strong is the goal. Big and not defined is actually is easy to achieve.

DB's may recruit more minor stabilizers, but the BB recruits more OVERALL muscle groups, develops STRENGTH AND POWER, and trains the CNS. Agility, dexterity, etc. are all functions NOT generally associated so much with lifting, but rather with activities that improve those motor skills. You are all over the board. If strength was REALLY your goal, you would spend more time working with the barbell.


Quote:
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there is no progression possible with dumbbells. Think about it... most gyms go up to 100 lbs. That's 200 lbs for bench press... intermediate level.

Same goes with bodyweight exercises. When you add weight to it, there is progression possibility. But even still... the possibility doesn't even start to compare to the main lifts. There is a much smaller "progression window".

The only thing that makes any of the bench exercises easier on your shoulders is your form dude.



you know this for a fact? have you been there before? that is such a naive comment. I'm of the opinion that shedding fat is MUCH easier than adding solid lean tissue.
This is the point that Rippetoe was trying to drive home with exercise type movements. The arc of progression/potential is MUCH smaller than that of the big compound lifts. And I agree, adding LBM is MUCH more difficult; he is very na´ve.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:34 PM   #16
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DBs at my gym go to 150lbs, I'm still at 70-75lbs. So progression won't apply to me for a while.

I have done this with many friends, bring a guy who can BB bench press 300lbs, ask him to DB bench press, he'll have lame number. The inverse is false. DB guys will have higher numbers on BBs.

As far as getting big and fat, it's easier, just eat, sleep, and workout. But to be lean and big is much harder.

Your first statement about DB weight is irrelevant. Even with a 150 lb. DB, it still will not put lean muscle mass on the body like a barbell bench press. Your example about the guy who bench XXX amount of weight on the barbell bench, but can't DB press XXX amount of weight only serves to highlight one thing: he doesn't DB press. DB guys don't have higher BB numbers by default. Generally speaking, a guy with a heavy BB bench and push heavy DB's; the inverse is not true (..much like Rippetoe's leg press versus squat anecdote).

Again...you're na´ve!
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:34 PM   #17
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Agree with Sean. I have been alternating between DBs and BB.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:36 PM   #18
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well-written article, but how much does this apply to people like me that dont care about numbers?

What do you care about then? If you're not going to the gym (..or playing a sport) to improve something - in this case, the amount of weight you can push or pull - what are you doing there? A significant amount of work needs to be performed to change the body, whether your goals are fat loss or muscle gain.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:45 PM   #19
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What do you care about then? If you're not going to the gym (..or playing a sport) to improve something - in this case, the amount of weight you can push or pull - what are you doing there?
i care more about it from a bodybuilding/aesthetics standpoint. i dont have any particular "goal" set in terms of numbers; my increases in strength just come with the territory
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:48 PM   #20
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i care more about it from a bodybuilding/aesthetics standpoint. i dont have any particular "goal" set in terms of numbers; my increases in strength just come with the territory

Okay, but even body builders think in terms of numbers (..How much weight? How many sets? How many reps? etc.), AND they have goals. Goals drive progression! If you don't have goals, you're shooting yourself in the foot and you'll be in largely the same place this time next year. At the end of the day though, the amount of weight you push/pull and the frequency for which you perform those activities will manifest itself in your physique. If a person looks strong, most likely they are. There is a reason that the strong, dense, muscular guys work with the barbell most often.

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