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Old 04-19-2013, 03:10 PM   #21
M3Inline6
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Quote:
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i think if you discussed your nutrition more often zoo you'd find that isn't very true!

and you missed the point of this thread entirely in my opinion.

You're right......and he did!
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:35 PM   #22
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You have been lifting for much longer than I have and it took you sometime to know what works for you based on the example you mentioned. I have been doing one muscle per day for 5 months. I felt like it's time for me to switch it as I'm getting stronger (thx to this forum).

For my chest and legs I don't think once a week is enough. Spring is here, I'll be mountain biking, playing soccer, tennis, etc, so I'll have less time to go to the gym and need to revise my plan.


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Originally Posted by M3Inline6 View Post
Hmmmm!

As for the other portions of your previous post, you're right that the devil is in the details. Some people may/will need to train more (..or less) to achieve the same goal. The frequency is a science that is only revealed with trial and error, but frequency is also dictated by adaptation. Example: Training legs once a week would not be enough for me at all. Even twice a week leaves more to be desired, but the day that I perform dead lifts more than makes up for what I need because of the overall intensity and weight used. When I need to mix it up, I'll throw in an endurance workout or something.

My nutrition plan is similar to yours. I mean there is only one way to eat healthy, which is eat wholefoods and cook at home. The rest is all some details.

As I mentioned in the other thread, some members here give generic advice. I'm a detailed-oriented person. I need to know ins/out of things before blindly accepting something.

Some stuff I disagree with, for example Solly is not a fan of rear delts workouts. If it were not for rear delts I won't be lifting weights I'm lifting now for my body weight and experience, especially if the rotator cuff injury I had.

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Originally Posted by dabears View Post
i think if you discussed your nutrition more often zoo you'd find that isn't very true!

and you missed the point of this thread entirely in my opinion.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:49 PM   #23
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Yes, but see devil is in the details. Yes, doing what you said will be good, but I don't aim for good, I aim for what's best for me. I care about efficiency. If I can get the same result with 12 sets instead of 16 why waste time and energy?

Frequency is highly debated. One muscle group per day works for some, and not others.

Sequence, little things matter like flat bench before incline. FS before BS. DL always first on back day, then pullups/chinups.

DB version of shoulder presses or BB? Standing or seated?

All of the above make a difference and it's important to know that difference. I like to know why/how something works instead of just using/following it.

I don't discuss nutrition much here because I eat clean and know my food.
Z00, jesus ****king christ.

Do what I said and you will be successful. I would put money on it that you will look exactly the same if you did a 5 days split around the compound lifts or a ABA BAB split with accessory work or substituted standing press for seated press.

Stop being so damn stubborn. If you lift heavy sh1t often, eat right, and sleep good you will make progress.

Think about it. We sit here and debate sh1t all day long and guess what. We're all wasting our time tweaking our routines when we should all just shut the fuuck up and lift heavy weights. You know how we all know this works? Because every time we change something it doesn't matter. We don't go from minor gains to insane gains because we substituted barbell curls for 6 reps for dumbbell hammer curls for 12 reps. IT just doesn't work like that. The only time someone will sky rocket in gains is if they worked out like an idiot and then went to a program with compound lifts.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by z00 View Post
You have been lifting for much longer than I have and it took you sometime to know what works for you based on the example you mentioned. I have been doing one muscle per day for 5 months. I felt like it's time for me to switch it as I'm getting stronger (thx to this forum).
I was in your position (..as most others were) in the beginning, but I think the greatest difference is the dissemination of information offered. You try to dispute a significant portion of what we offer to you. When I was an up-and-comer, I listened to the dudes with the size (..and I will STILL listen to this day...to a guy who puts up the weight and puts his money where his mouth is). That was it! End of discussion! The dudes with the size, with the development, and with the power/strength obviously knew something that I didn't. I listened with open ears and a shut mouth. It's the same thing when I race bikes. I seek the knowledge from the guy with the fast lap times, not the guy who talks about achieving fast lap times. We're hard on you specifically because we're trying to instill some very simple fundamentals into your brain.




Quote:
Originally Posted by z00 View Post
Some stuff I disagree with, for example Solly is not a fan of rear delts workouts. If it were not for rear delts I won't be lifting weights I'm lifting now for my body weight and experience, especially if the rotator cuff injury I had.
Your situation was a rehab situation, so I understand your position in that particular instance. DylloS is a fan of the compound lift and METCON's, so isolation stuff isn't his forte (..and understandably so).
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:55 PM   #25
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I'm also a very detail oriented person as well, and I can see that in you too. But knowing myself, you need to be careful of that fact. You also need to learn what matters and what doesn't, and not treat all details with the same "priority". The point of this thread!

For example, from a nutrition standpoint for losing weight and maintaining muscle mass

If you don't complete the below in the order they are listed, you will fail

1. Eat less calories than you burn = weight loss
2. Eat sufficient protein & lift heavy = weight loss & muscle retention
3a: Partition carb intake to pre/post workout
3b: Intermittently Fast
3c: Drink coffee / green tea
3d: Eat whole foods
etc..

See where I am going with this? #1 and #2 are steadfast rules, just like getting enough sleep, training with heavy barbells, and eating at a surplus are steadfast rules for gaining mass. Everything else is just a #3a,b,c... extra details that can help, but don't matter if you lose sight of #1 and #2... something I feel happens to you from time to time. There is so much information out there, and I consider myself a pretty smart dude and it has fooled me plenty of times, so I know how easy it is to "get it twisted".

Edit: lol damn I got beat to it
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dabears View Post
I'm also a very detail oriented person as well, and I can see that in you too. But knowing myself, you need to be careful of that fact. You also need to learn what matters and what doesn't, and not treat all details with the same "priority". The point of this thread!

For example, from a nutrition standpoint for losing weight and maintaining muscle mass

If you don't complete the below in the order they are listed, you will fail

1. Eat less calories than you burn = weight loss
2. Eat sufficient protein & lift heavy = weight loss & muscle retention
3a: Partition carb intake to pre/post workout
3b: Intermittently Fast
3c: Drink coffee / green tea
3d: Eat whole foods
etc..

See where I am going with this? #1 and #2 are steadfast rules, just like getting enough sleep, training with heavy barbells, and eating at a surplus are steadfast rules for gaining mass. Everything else is just a #3a,b,c... extra details that can help, but don't matter if you lose sight of #1 and #2... something I feel happens to you from time to time. There is so much information out there, and I consider myself a pretty smart dude and it has fooled me plenty of times, so I know how easy it is to "get it twisted".

Edit: lol damn I got beat to it

That was a damn good response. Well said!
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:26 PM   #27
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I need to eat better while eating out. I refuse to cook and eat alone at home.

Am I being stubborn?
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:36 PM   #28
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I need to eat better while eating out. I refuse to cook and eat alone at home.

Am I being stubborn?

Yes you are! I can understand the "need" to eat out sometimes.....be it work related, social, etc.....you'll just need to weigh your options. I tend to gravitate towards El Pollo Loco or some random place that serves chicken and rice bowls.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:38 PM   #29
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Squat > Deadlift.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:41 PM   #30
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places that you eat out = businesses

what do businesses do? cut costs.

unless its a five star restaurant (and you are paying those prices) you are getting the lowest quality / cheapest food there is.

i know personally I don't want to put that in my body
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:44 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by dabears View Post
places that you eat out = businesses

what do businesses do? cut costs.

unless its a five star restaurant (and you are paying those prices) you are getting the lowest quality / cheapest food there is.

i know personally I don't want to put that in my body

I like my chicken caged and clucking, and my beef grainy and striated. Free range and grass fed are for the weak.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 04-19-2013 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:44 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by M3Inline6 View Post
Yes you are! I can understand the "need" to eat out sometimes.....be it work related, social, etc.....you'll just need to weigh your options. I tend to gravitate towards El Pollo Loco or some random place that serves chicken and rice bowls.
I eat at "nicer" restaurants i.e. table cloth and wine lists at least twice a week.

Its for work, but i try to order a meat/fish and vegetables. Total is about $50/person...not 5 star but not el pollo loco either
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:45 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by dabears View Post
places that you eat out = businesses

what do businesses do? cut costs.

unless its a five star restaurant (and you are paying those prices) you are getting the lowest quality / cheapest food there is.

i know personally I don't want to put that in my body
The guys on here aren't going to see a difference in their lifts/body from eating a burger from a restaurant versus at home.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:46 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by rohde88 View Post
I eat at "nicer" restaurants i.e. table cloth and wine lists at least twice a week.

Its for work, but i try to order a meat/fish and vegetables. Total is about $50/person...not 5 star but not el pollo loco either

Then you sir are a better man than I am. I can't remember the last time I ate a "top dollar" meal.





....All I have time for is policing and lifting, and stuffing my face in between.



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The guys on here aren't going to see a difference in their lifts/body from eating a burger from a restaurant versus at home.

True story!

Last edited by M3Inline6; 04-19-2013 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:47 PM   #35
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I have to do the same thing for business, and I will always order a meat + vegetables dish, or a salad with chicken/fish/beef. There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion, as long as the calories/nutrients meet your specific goals.

That being said, you live in America. Portions are RIDICULOUS. Someone who eats out the majority of the time will be completely unable to control their weight in my opinion, unless they are constantly exercising / labor intense job.

And you live in texas. My god man. I go down there from time to time, and when I get a "side" of potatoes its about 4 potatoes. And everything is fried!
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:49 PM   #36
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The guys on here aren't going to see a difference in their lifts/body from eating a burger from a restaurant versus at home.
agreed, I just try and slip in some health to the 99% fitness forum from time to time
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:08 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by M3Inline6 View Post
I was in your position (..as most others were) in the beginning, but I think the greatest difference is the dissemination of information offered. You try to dispute a significant portion of what we offer to you. When I was an up-and-comer, I listened to the dudes with the size (..and I will STILL listen to this day...to a guy who puts up the weight and puts his money where his mouth is). That was it! End of discussion! The dudes with the size, with the development, and with the power/strength obviously knew something that I didn't. I listened with open ears and a shut mouth. It's the same thing when I race bikes. I seek the knowledge from the guy with the fast lap times, not the guy who talks about achieving fast lap times. We're hard on you specifically because we're trying to instill some very simple fundamentals into your brain.

Your situation was a rehab situation, so I understand your position in that particular instance. DylloS is a fan of the compound lift and METCON's, so isolation stuff isn't his forte (..and understandably so).
I do listen, the problem here is that I only listen if I understand. I don't like just listening. As you said there is a plethora of information out there, I try to make sense of it and discuss it here. For things I understand I listen. If I don't, I ask for an explanation and see if it fits my needs. I think this is better than just listening. It's like being able to read but not understand. It's not good.

Agree on rehab point vs Olympic lifts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DylloS View Post
Z00, jesus ****king christ.

Do what I said and you will be successful. I would put money on it that you will look exactly the same if you did a 5 days split around the compound lifts or a ABA BAB split with accessory work or substituted standing press for seated press.

Stop being so damn stubborn. If you lift heavy sh1t often, eat right, and sleep good you will make progress.

Think about it. We sit here and debate sh1t all day long and guess what. We're all wasting our time tweaking our routines when we should all just shut the fuuck up and lift heavy weights. You know how we all know this works? Because every time we change something it doesn't matter. We don't go from minor gains to insane gains because we substituted barbell curls for 6 reps for dumbbell hammer curls for 12 reps. IT just doesn't work like that. The only time someone will sky rocket in gains is if they worked out like an idiot and then went to a program with compound lifts.

Yes, what you said is true, sleeping, lifting heavy compound movements, and eating is the core of it. But details will help. I have core stuff down. It's the details that I'm looking into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabears View Post
I'm also a very detail oriented person as well, and I can see that in you too. But knowing myself, you need to be careful of that fact. You also need to learn what matters and what doesn't, and not treat all details with the same "priority". The point of this thread!

For example, from a nutrition standpoint for losing weight and maintaining muscle mass

If you don't complete the below in the order they are listed, you will fail

1. Eat less calories than you burn = weight loss
2. Eat sufficient protein & lift heavy = weight loss & muscle retention
3a: Partition carb intake to pre/post workout
3b: Intermittently Fast
3c: Drink coffee / green tea
3d: Eat whole foods
etc..

See where I am going with this? #1 and #2 are steadfast rules, just like getting enough sleep, training with heavy barbells, and eating at a surplus are steadfast rules for gaining mass. Everything else is just a #3a,b,c... extra details that can help, but don't matter if you lose sight of #1 and #2... something I feel happens to you from time to time. There is so much information out there, and I consider myself a pretty smart dude and it has fooled me plenty of times, so I know how easy it is to "get it twisted".

Edit: lol damn I got beat to it
I get that I'm stubborn, I know I'm, but I'm rational. When I ask a question, and I get a rational answer, I accept it. The problem here is that people don't like to explain their answers. They just expect people to listen like M3Inline6 said. That does not work well with me; here, when I was in school, work, anywhere.

I got basics figured out, like I said to Solly, it's just the details in maximizing my time and effort. I already do all what you mentioned. For example, before I did not value front squats, after doing them I realized what I was missing. Same thing with DB bench press, etc...

It's a healthy fun debate though. We all try to make the best of what we're doing.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:15 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by dabears View Post
I have to do the same thing for business, and I will always order a meat + vegetables dish, or a salad with chicken/fish/beef. There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion, as long as the calories/nutrients meet your specific goals.

That being said, you live in America. Portions are RIDICULOUS. Someone who eats out the majority of the time will be completely unable to control their weight in my opinion, unless they are constantly exercising / labor intense job.

And you live in texas. My god man. I go down there from time to time, and when I get a "side" of potatoes its about 4 potatoes. And everything is fried!
Portion is really key. I will try to leave food on my plate every meal. I dont eat fried food (other than calamari).

Its the tempting desserts and alcohol calories that prevent me from losing weight too.

And M3, come to the private side and Im sure youll be entertaining clients or potential clients soon enough! Security firms are becoming a huge business ....
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:19 PM   #39
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Thats great, I agree portion control is key (if you are making the proper food choices).

Last time I was down there, I had chicken fried steak & gravy, brisket, fried onion rings, fried talapia, fried pickles... in about a 30 hour period. Delicious, but I felt like dying after
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:19 PM   #40
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My George foreman grill sees way more breasts than I do. Nom.

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