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Old 09-19-2014, 09:37 PM   #1
gray323i2000
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What do you think of these rotors? Bad? (pics)

Hi All,

My car has been extremly shaky when braking at 50pmh or more, checked bushings and they look fine, i came to a conclusion, the rotors are wrapped.

I just got this car less than 2 months ago, i had the time to check the brake pads today, and this is what i found out. I HAVE NO MORE BRAKE PADS. LOOK AT PICTURES.

I wanted your opinion, do you think the shaky comes from the brakes, that i have about 1% left on them? Or is it the rotors, the rotors look in good shape to me, but wanted your opinion.


Theres a guy on cragslist whos selling OEM set of 4 rotors and 4 brakes for $100.

let me know what you think, and ifg i should buy the rotors from this guy or just change my brakes.


Thanks!
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:57 PM   #2
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Look up your application, then put the part number in Amazon.com

http://www.powerstop.com/
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:01 PM   #3
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I would just get new rotors. Zimmerman rotors, Textar pads and a sensor come out to around $180 per axle and it's a real easy job to DIY.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:03 PM   #4
gray323i2000
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Hi Jfoj, what do you mean with that.

What's you opinion about this, Do the rotors look bad to you? Can the 0% brakes make the car shake while braking?
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Old 09-20-2014, 01:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by gray323i2000 View Post
Hi Jfoj, what do you mean with that.

What's you opinion about this, Do the rotors look bad to you? Can the 0% brakes make the car shake while braking?
what are you talking about 0% brakes? you can't gauge a rotor by looking at it. what brand are they? if they are a good brand, i would just have them machined down so they're smooth again.
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Old 09-20-2014, 05:01 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by gray323i2000 View Post
Hi All,

My car has been extremly shaky when braking at 50pmh or more, checked bushings and they look fine, i came to a conclusion, the rotors are wrapped.

I just got this car less than 2 months ago, i had the time to check the brake pads today, and this is what i found out. I HAVE NO MORE BRAKE PADS. LOOK AT PICTURES.

I wanted your opinion, do you think the shaky comes from the brakes, that i have about 1% left on them? Or is it the rotors, the rotors look in good shape to me, but wanted your opinion.


Theres a guy on cragslist whos selling OEM set of 4 rotors and 4 brakes for $100.

let me know what you think, and ifg i should buy the rotors from this guy or just change my brakes.


Thanks!
They don't look bad to me and you can't really tell if a rotor is running out without using a DTI. It would take a lot to cause runout so significant that it could be seen with teh naked eye. See if you can borrow one.
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Old 09-20-2014, 05:16 AM   #7
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Rotors are so cheap nowadays that its not worth machining them. Get new ones. Be sure to clean the hub that the rotors ride on. If there is a build-up on the hub it can cause the "lateral run-out" you are experiencing. Also make sure you lube the slide pins in the caliper... if you had a micrometer you could measure the lateral run-out and determine where the warp lies...dont buy used rotors from someone else. Do it right the first time.

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Old 09-20-2014, 05:37 AM   #8
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Rotors are so cheap nowadays that its not worth machining them. Get new ones. Be sure to clean the hub that the rotors ride on. If there is a build-up on the hub it can cause the "lateral run-out" you are experiencing. Also make sure you lube the slide pins in the caliper... if you had a micrometer you could measure the lateral run-out and determine where the warp lies...dont buy used rotors from someone else. Do it right the first time.
Micrometer no use in these circumstances. Need a DTI.


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Old 09-20-2014, 05:38 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by gray323i2000 View Post
Hi Jfoj, what do you mean with that.

What's you opinion about this, Do the rotors look bad to you? Can the 0% brakes make the car shake while braking?
Although the rotors look pretty good from the pictures, cannot tell how thick they are and as mentions, often times it does not make sense to spend money on them to machine them if they have the material left.

The Craigslist solution is just that, a Craigslist solution. You have no idea what you are getting until you have spent the money and installed the parts. It may be a deal and solve your issues, but bring Craigslist, I doubt the outcome for used rotors and brake pads will be too great.

Also brakes are a really important part of a vehicle. You do not want to cheap out too much in this department.

There are a lot of options out there, however, for under $360 you can get 4 slotted and drilled rotors and low dust ceramic pads on your front doorstep.

I installed a Power Stop 4 wheel set up on a few cars and everyone has been very happy with the performance, pad life and low dust.
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:54 AM   #10
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If the rotors were the issue, there would be some symptoms at other speeds as well. They look good from the pictures, need to be measured.
How old are you FCABs?
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Old 09-20-2014, 10:23 AM   #11
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My 2 cents, remove the rotors and take them to a brake shop like Les Schwab. They will test them and if still usable they will resurface them. When replacing pads you should have the rotors resurfaced or replaced any way.
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Old 09-20-2014, 12:53 PM   #12
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There is supposed to be no such thing as a warped brake rotor. The rotors you posted look fine to me. They look a lot better than the ones on my car at least, which are original with 135k, lipped accordingly, probably beyond spec by now, and braking flawlessly. I mean you step on the pedal its like hitting a tree, with no judder or pulsation or oscillation of any kind whatsoever. When these pads wear out I will then replace the rotors along with them.

My opinion is people are too hasty in their brake rotor replacement philosophy. But anything that helps the economy...

Remove the rotors and clean the hub behind them thoroughly, and apply a light even coat of antiseize paste. Clean inside of rotor hat thoroughly and reinstall. Clean the rotor surface off with brake cleaner & a Scotchbrite pad. Any dirt or schmutz where they mount will cause runout of the sort that makes people actually believe that such a thing as a 'warped brake rotor' exists.

Also check your wheels for an out-of-round condition, tires for tread separation, and overall wheel balance. You want a high-speed dynamic balance for these.

Do not machine these rotors, that's a red herring.
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Old 09-21-2014, 05:22 AM   #13
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[QUOTE=gray323i2000;16334187]Hi All,

My car has been extremly shaky when braking at 50pmh or more, checked bushings and they look fine, i came to a conclusion, the rotors are wrapped. [QUOTE]

I carefully re-read your statement and focused more on the complaint, not your diagnosis.

The car is new to you, you probably do not know the history of repairs very well.

If the "shaky" if felt in the brake pedal, the the problem is the brakes, if the "shaky" if felt in the steering wheel, then the problem is not likely the brakes or it could be a combination of something suspension wise and aggravated by the breaks.

Rotors can and do warp, but usually higher quality rotor castings do not have as many issues as cheap castings. There are other things that can cause brakes to pulsate and often if may not be a warped rotor but uneven pad deposits.

Here is a statement quoted from Tire Racks FAQ Brake page that sums things up pretty well http://www.tirerack.com/FAQ/results....tegory=Brakes:

"How can I tell if my rotors are warped or if it's something else?

Brake rotors don't warp unless overheated. It's very common to misdiagnose brake problems and attribute them to a warped brake rotor. Warping is caused by excessive heating of the brake rotor and the resulting distortion of the cast iron.

The main symptom of warped rotors is a pulsation felt in the pedal when brakes are applied. If the vibration is felt in the steering wheel or in the dash of the vehicle, it's more likely a completely different problem: brake judder. A simple run-out measurement will confirm the diagnosis.

The only way to confirm a rotor is warped is to measure run-out with a dial indicator gauge. Most shops are equipped with this measuring tool and can check the bare rotor run-outs on the vehicle. If your installer says a rotor is warped, be sure to ask them for the run-out numbers on the rotor as well as the run-out numbers on the hub under the rotor. The new rotor should also be checked for excessive run-out using a dial indicator gauge once it is mounted and before the caliper and pads are installed. If a rotor has excessive run-out of over .004" (.10mm) it should be replaced."

Notice the value of run-out that Tire Rack stays the brake rotor needs to not exceed! 0.004" which is the thickness of a piece of paper! This is not much, so the rotor needs to be very flat, parallel and true to meet this figure.

Again, re-evaluate the problem.

Is the sensation felt in the steering wheel or the brake pedal, this is important.

But in any event your brake pads need to be replaced. The dealer will ALWAYS replace the brake rotors when replacing the brake pads unless the brakes are being replaced under the Bumper To Bumper or CPO Warranty, then the dealer will only replace the brake pads.

So depending on who is paying the bill it depends on what is replaced during a brake job at the dealer!
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Last edited by jfoj; 09-21-2014 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 09-21-2014, 05:53 PM   #14
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... Also make sure you lube the slide pins in the caliper .
Bentley and BMW both say not to lubricate the slide pins. An exception to that would be if you installed a solid brake guide kit, which needs to be cleaned and lubed at least annually.
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:51 PM   #15
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Micrometer no use in these circumstances. Need a DTI.

yes, that thing, thanks, couldnt remember the name. That's what i use.
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:52 PM   #16
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Bentley and BMW both say not to lubricate the slide pins. An exception to that would be if you installed a solid brake guide kit, which needs to be cleaned and lubed at least annually.
Good to know. I would expect you should at least clean them to stop binding?
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Old 09-21-2014, 07:56 PM   #17
bmwerkes
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[QUOTE=jfoj;16335425][QUOTE=gray323i2000;16334187]Hi All,

My car has been extremly shaky when braking at 50pmh or more, checked bushings and they look fine, i came to a conclusion, the rotors are wrapped.
Quote:

I carefully re-read your statement and focused more on the complaint, not your diagnosis.

The car is new to you, you probably do not know the history of repairs very well.

If the "shaky" if felt in the brake pedal, the the problem is the brakes, if the "shaky" if felt in the steering wheel, then the problem is not likely the brakes or it could be a combination of something suspension wise and aggravated by the breaks.

Rotors can and do warp, but usually higher quality rotor castings do not have as many issues as cheap castings. There are other things that can cause brakes to pulsate and often if may not be a warped rotor but uneven pad deposits.

Here is a statement quoted from Tire Racks FAQ Brake page that sums things up pretty well http://www.tirerack.com/FAQ/results....tegory=Brakes:

"How can I tell if my rotors are warped or if it's something else?

Brake rotors don't warp unless overheated. It's very common to misdiagnose brake problems and attribute them to a warped brake rotor. Warping is caused by excessive heating of the brake rotor and the resulting distortion of the cast iron.

The main symptom of warped rotors is a pulsation felt in the pedal when brakes are applied. If the vibration is felt in the steering wheel or in the dash of the vehicle, it's more likely a completely different problem: brake judder. A simple run-out measurement will confirm the diagnosis.

The only way to confirm a rotor is warped is to measure run-out with a dial indicator gauge. Most shops are equipped with this measuring tool and can check the bare rotor run-outs on the vehicle. If your installer says a rotor is warped, be sure to ask them for the run-out numbers on the rotor as well as the run-out numbers on the hub under the rotor. The new rotor should also be checked for excessive run-out using a dial indicator gauge once it is mounted and before the caliper and pads are installed. If a rotor has excessive run-out of over .004" (.10mm) it should be replaced."

Notice the value of run-out that Tire Rack stays the brake rotor needs to not exceed! 0.004" which is the thickness of a piece of paper! This is not much, so the rotor needs to be very flat, parallel and true to meet this figure.

Again, re-evaluate the problem.

Is the sensation felt in the steering wheel or the brake pedal, this is important.

But in any event your brake pads need to be replaced. The dealer will ALWAYS replace the brake rotors when replacing the brake pads unless the brakes are being replaced under the Bumper To Bumper or CPO Warranty, then the dealer will only replace the brake pads.

So depending on who is paying the bill it depends on what is replaced during a brake job at the dealer!
I understand what you are saying, but if there is lateral run out in the rotor it will cause the braking force to modulate. this modulation will cause the vibration to transfer into the steering wheel as well as the pedal. It will probably not cause it to pull as both brakes are applied. My wife's car had lateral run out, after new rotors and a thorough cleaning of the hubs the vibration and lateral play disappeared.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:09 PM   #18
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