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Suspension & Braking
Have some questions about suspension or brake setups for your E46 BMW? Get all your answers here!

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:08 PM   #21
dmax
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So what I've learned is that hard braking does generate more heat, but hard braking generates that heat over a shorter period of time. If you brake easily, the pads are on the rotor longer and thus the rotor doesn't dissipate the heat generated.

...and, fyi, I don't slam on my brakes in traffic...only on nice winding roads...and I always use my rearview mirror, particularly after getting rear ended after a little 'deer in front, Asian woman behind' incident!

...and I've never heard that bmw uses different pad manufacturers on the front and rear. Not for mine...maybe the 330? IDK
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:16 PM   #22
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So what I've learned is that hard braking does generate more heat, but hard braking generates that heat over a shorter period of time. If you brake easily, the pads are on the rotor longer and thus the rotor doesn't dissipate the heat generated.

...and, fyi, I don't slam on my brakes in traffic...only on nice winding roads...and I always use my rearview mirror, particularly after getting rear ended after a little 'deer in front, Asian woman behind' incident!

...and I've never heard that bmw uses different pad manufacturers on the front and rear. Not for mine...maybe the 330? IDK
I'm going to point out some semantics that probably won't seem important, but are in a way. Heat is energy, so both scenarios convert (key word) the kinetic energy in to heat through friction. Heat energy causes a rise in material temperature. So, the 100 foot brake creates a higher peak temperature, not more heat.

Also, there is heat dissipation occurring from the moment the rotor rises above ambient temperature to the moment it returns to ambient temperature. It is possible to create a scenario in which you are decelerating and the brake temperature rises, then peaks and remains constant until brake force is modulated in some way. This would occur when the rate of kinetic energy being converted to heat equals the amount of heat transferred to the cooling air. So that slow, long brake may drag the pads on the rotors for longer, but it is with less force, and potentially, the temperature plateaus, given a long enough application of force. There's so many factors here, that's why I could never say if the pads wear more or less depending on force.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:12 PM   #23
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My brakes lit on fire once after an unusually rapid deceleration.

Of course it was in an F-14 so it doesn't have much application here except to say that hard, rapid braking can definitely overload the material's heat capacity
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:36 PM   #24
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...and I've never heard that bmw uses different pad manufacturers on the front and rear. Not for mine...maybe the 330? IDK
Yes, that would really surprise me if true. I don't even think FWD cars would do that. My new, extensive search did turn up this:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...light=oem+pads

Like I said, I was so confused! I thought Pagid was the OEM pad for our cars, with Jurid being a BMW "we reserve the right to use..." second, & Textar an OE type. I stand corrected....

"No need to make two threads on your search for brakes and rotors."
But it wouldn't hurt, eh?

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Old 05-07-2013, 02:39 PM   #25
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All those companies you list are OEM suppliers for BMW AG. Each BMW model gets different brands depending on the particular contract with BMW. In the case of the E46 330, I know it is Textar. As for the other models, I'd bet Textar as well. Haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. Either case, you'll be fine with any of those. All top quality.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:42 PM   #26
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We better end this before we get yelled at again....

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:06 PM   #27
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All those companies you list are OEM suppliers for BMW AG. Each BMW model gets different brands depending on the particular contract with BMW. In the case of the E46 330, I know it is Textar. As for the other models, I'd bet Textar as well. Haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. Either case, you'll be fine with any of those. All top quality.
Exactly.

One thing though, my info says Jurid was the OEM supplier for the 330. How do you know its textar?
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:10 PM   #28
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Exactly.

One thing though, my info says Jurid was the OEM supplier for the 330. How do you know its textar?
OK, OK! It's Textar on the right & Jurid on the left. I did a search!

And Pagid is used for the e-brake shoes. Do they still call this an emergency brake rather than a parking brake? It can hardly hold when parked on a hill.
Used to be, when most cars had big drums for rear brakes that it was an emergency brake. Now they use that little tiny cup sized thing....

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:11 PM   #29
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Exactly.

One thing though, my info says Jurid was the OEM supplier for the 330. How do you know its textar?
I've compared Genuine BMW pads with Textars in the yellow box. Mark for mark, stamp for stamp, 100% identical except BMW says BMW on it and Textar says Textar. Maybe some 330s got Jurid?
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:17 PM   #30
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I've compared Genuine BMW pads with Textars in the yellow box. Mark for mark, stamp for stamp, 100% identical except BMW says BMW on it and Textar says Textar. Maybe some 330s got Jurid?
Hmm yeah that's interesting. Maybe its a toss up and BMW used different manufacturers. It happened with the ETs
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:22 PM   #31
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Re: Brake pad brands...

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When you come down, I'll show you a bit of what ATE pads are capable of But I want performance friction next.

Ready?

This is one of the "milder" ones too

Great Shot! One of the best sections of that run...little bump steer there for sure.
But, 7-8 turns later is the downhill hard right at the bridge, which is gnarly if you don't know its coming.

Pardon me if it was mentioned after the quoted post above, as that's where I quit reading...but bleeding the brakes is an essential part of initial bite, which OP mentioned he was seeking...hell aren't we all?

Don't forget to bleed as part of the brake service, it isn't necessary, but is optimum.

You will want to bed the new pads to the new rotors. "Look up brake bedding"




Hard Transient Braking would be ideal when your rotors are very hot.

Threshold braking before a turn is more of a racing technique, as you don't want to be braking through a turn...I would not consider it better for the brakes especially when not needed.

I don't think the friction created by gently using the brakes for longer causes enough heat to transfer through the pad, then the piston to boil the DOT 3 or 4 fluid.

It all comes down to the temperature of the rotor, which for normal driving shouldn't even matter.

I happen to set fire to my brakes on a downhill section, (at the very canyon in the pic Mango posted) because I had to stop abruptly for a spun-out S2000...I sat there with my foot on the brake, and it started welding my front pads to the rotors which were literally glowing red.

Had to throw my big gulp on the Fiery pads to put out the flames
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:22 PM   #32
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Hmm yeah that's interesting. Maybe its a toss up and BMW used different manufacturers. It happened with the ETs
That would happen if a single manufacturer couldn't meet their capacity requirements. They'd use two suppliers for a part designed to exactly the same specs. Or they would cut the original supplier out and go with a larger manufacturer. Maybe they switched in the middle of production. It wouldn't surprise me.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:39 PM   #33
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:16 PM   #34
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Great Shot! One of the best sections of that run...little bump steer there for sure.
But, 7-8 turns later is the downhill hard right at the bridge, which is gnarly if you don't know its coming.

Pardon me if it was mentioned after the quoted post above, as that's where I quit reading...but bleeding the brakes is an essential part of initial bite, which OP mentioned he was seeking...hell aren't we all?

Don't forget to bleed as part of the brake service, it isn't necessary, but is optimum.

You will want to bed the new pads to the new rotors. "Look up brake bedding"




Hard Transient Braking would be ideal when your rotors are very hot.

Threshold braking before a turn is more of a racing technique, as you don't want to be braking through a turn...I would not consider it better for the brakes especially when not needed.

I don't think the friction created by gently using the brakes for longer causes enough heat to transfer through the pad, then the piston to boil the DOT 3 or 4 fluid.

It all comes down to the temperature of the rotor, which for normal driving shouldn't even matter.

I happen to set fire to my brakes on a downhill section, (at the very canyon in the pic Mango posted) because I had to stop abruptly for a spun-out S2000...I sat there with my foot on the brake, and it started welding my front pads to the rotors which were literally glowing red.

Had to throw my big gulp on the Fiery pads to put out the flames
You sure we talking about the same canyon? I'm fairly sure that's Piuma in Malibu. See the ocean in the background? You must be thinking that's in your neck of the woods. That "other" canyon system
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:34 PM   #35
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Re: Brake pad brands...

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You sure we talking about the same canyon? I'm fairly sure that's Piuma in Malibu. See the ocean in the background? You must be thinking that's in your neck of the woods. That "other" canyon system
Oops...at a glance I thought that was sky...it looked exactly like the corkscrew at "Little T".

Looking at it a bit closer, I see that it is a good bit different, also there isn't an easy way to get that type of shot at little T without hiking up a steep mountain...so I was going to ask how the hell you got that shot.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:18 PM   #36
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Brake pad brands...

I wish I could find places like that to drive out here.


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Old 05-09-2013, 02:31 PM   #37
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Oops...at a glance I thought that was sky...it looked exactly like the corkscrew at "Little T".

Looking at it a bit closer, I see that it is a good bit different, also there isn't an easy way to get that type of shot at little T without hiking up a steep mountain...so I was going to ask how the hell you got that shot.
oh it's not my shot. i pulled it from google. though i have some similar shots from 10 yrs ago. we should roam the canyons one day and make several stops and take pics. Day before bimmerfest we might. i'll shoot you a text/call. flaker
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:12 PM   #38
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Re: Brake pad brands...

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oh it's not my shot. i pulled it from google. though i have some similar shots from 10 yrs ago. we should roam the canyons one day and make several stops and take pics. Day before bimmerfest we might. i'll shoot you a text/call. flaker
Haha...Sounds good.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:21 PM   #39
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #40
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Good info. Thanks everyone.
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