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Political Talk
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:04 AM   #21
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Read what I posted again. Although, I don't expect you to reply with anything that resembles a rational thought process.
I'm with you.

Coincidence.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:06 AM   #22
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I'm with you.

Coincidence.
If the AWB was the sole reason for the drop in murders, why did we not see a rise in murders after 2004, when the AWB expired? It's a simple question.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:08 AM   #23
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I agree with you.

Coincidence.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:15 AM   #24
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You seem to be ignoring the motivation behind 9/11 and the actual method of how it was carried out.
I'm quite cognizant of the difference in motivations and how they were carried out. However, given that, I'm not sure how being murdered by the hands of foreign terrorists is significantly, if any, better/worse than being murdered by the hands of your fellow American. Rather, perhaps both grim tolls should exact a equivalent level of care, concern and distinct action.

Perhaps if we exercised the same level of action against the methods of gun murders to a rate of 1/100,000 as we did against the methods of the 9/11 perputrators, there would be some 36,000 fewer murdered Americans since 9/11.

PS, I'm using very off-the-cuff calculations based on a roughly 9,000/year gun homicide rate. This does ignore the huge (greater?) number of gun deaths due to suicide and accident, never mind the large overall number of gun injuries from all causes.

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Old 05-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #25
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Less males between 17-24 now than then. Crime is completely dependent on that one crime prone age group.

If you think its related to anything else, you'd be completely wrong.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:08 PM   #26
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Less males between 17-24 now than then. Crime is completely dependent on that one crime prone age group.

If you think its related to anything else, you'd be completely wrong.
And what percent of those individuals will be repeat offenders? You cannot keep them in one age group forever, that's unless they die I guess.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:17 PM   #27
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I love graphs, lol.

3/100,000 people is not appallingly higher than 1/100,000.
That chart, for some reason, excludes Mexico as well. The scale is ridiculous, as you pointed out.

Also, America has more diversity than just about any other country. Different groups and cultures historically tend to clash. Plus, American blacks have an extremely high firearm murder/victim rate that other countries don't have.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:29 PM   #28
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That chart, for some reason, excludes Mexico as well.
They don't make charts large enough to capture the violence in Mexico.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:38 PM   #29
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They don't make charts large enough to capture the violence in Mexico.
At least guns are illegal there, thank god!
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:45 PM   #30
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There is likely no one single reason for the decline.

Is it sheer coincidence that there was a steady decline after the AWB? Probably not. It also could be seen to show that the AWB had a continuing effect. Even if it was the overall public perception about guns and gun violence. (After all, that is the OP's orig theme here.)

The age group data is also likely part of the reason for the drop.

And perhaps the media is just not to blame. Has the perception that there is more gun violence also had a positive effect in lowering the numbers? If the media is a strong, powerful, and influential on the american psyche as the OP is implying, it is more than a coincidence.

Perhaps rather than chiding the media, as a self-proclaimed responsible gun owner, perhaps the OP should be thanking the media for their work in help to curb gun violence rates.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:48 PM   #31
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At least guns are illegal there, thank god!
But, so is their biggest cash crop, mary jane and their is no denying that the biggest perps of violence are the cartels and they are driven by drug money. Perhaps if it was legalized and allowed to be a legal export from Mexico to the US and the world, there would be less gun violence.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:58 PM   #32
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That chart, for some reason, excludes Mexico as well. The scale is ridiculous, as you pointed out.

Also, America has more diversity than just about any other country. Different groups and cultures historically tend to clash. Plus, American blacks have an extremely high firearm murder/victim rate that other countries don't have.
Sooo, just to be clear then, the problem isn't guns in America, but diverse minorities, especially blacks? In other words, we don't need to do anything about rampant guns, but we do need to do something about our diversity and minorities.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:09 PM   #33
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But, so is their biggest cash crop, mary jane and their is no denying that the biggest perps of violence are the cartels and they are driven by drug money. Perhaps if it was legalized and allowed to be a legal export from Mexico to the US and the world, there would be less gun violence.
You aren't going to see me disagree with that.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:10 PM   #34
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Perhaps rather than chiding the media, as a self-proclaimed responsible gun owner, perhaps the OP should be thanking the media for their work in help to curb gun violence rates.
I don't own a single gun
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:11 PM   #35
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Sooo, just to be clear then, the problem isn't guns in America, but diverse minorities, especially blacks? In other words, we don't need to do anything about rampant guns, but we do need to do something about our diversity and minorities.


There are other countries with high gun ownership rates that don't have our numbers, but those countries are more homogenous. It could easily be a factor, and since we obviously don't know why things are the way they are there is nothing wrong with pointing out true facts.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:14 PM   #36
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Sooo, just to be clear then, the problem isn't guns in America, but diverse minorities, especially blacks? In other words, we don't need to do anything about rampant guns, but we do need to do something about our diversity and minorities.
Let's pull some statistics from European countries.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:28 PM   #37
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Let's pull some statistics from European countries.
Switzerland:

45.7 guns per 100 residents (only below USA and Yemen)
6.4 firearm deaths (not murders) per 100,000 (US is 10.27)
Demographics:
78% Swiss, 22% foreign
Ethnically: German 65%, French 18%, Italian 10%, Romansch 1%, other 6%

COUNTERPOINT: Gun violence rate is going down while ethnic mix is exponentially increasing in the US over the past few decades, so that has to be taken into consideration as well.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:36 PM   #38
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Not sure if the statistics on gun crime homicides indicate the whole picture. What do the total homicide rates look like in other countries compared to the US? So they don't use guns...ok, they still kill. And what about total violent crime?

Also, lets dismiss this connection between homicide rate and the AWB right now. The number of homicides committed with an assault weapon in the US each year is staggeringly low, like less than 1-2%. And that's with the ban expired. Before that, I seriously doubt it was much lower during the ban. Any variation of that percentage does not in any way remotely affect the fairly significant change we've seen over the past 20 years in firearm homicides dropping. There's no causation at all there.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:53 PM   #39
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And what percent of those individuals will be repeat offenders? You cannot keep them in one age group forever, that's unless they die I guess.
They will age out of the crime prone age group and commit less or no crime.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:11 PM   #40
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That chart, for some reason, excludes Mexico as well. The scale is ridiculous, as you pointed out.

Also, America has more diversity than just about any other country. Different groups and cultures historically tend to clash. Plus, American blacks have an extremely high firearm murder/victim rate that other countries don't have.
The chart excludes Syria as well.

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Switzerland:

45.7 guns per 100 residents (only below USA and Yemen)
6.4 firearm deaths (not murders) per 100,000 (US is 10.27)
Demographics:
78% Swiss, 22% foreign
Ethnically: German 65%, French 18%, Italian 10%, Romansch 1%, other 6%

COUNTERPOINT: Gun violence rate is going down while ethnic mix is exponentially increasing in the US over the past few decades, so that has to be taken into consideration as well.
Ahh, the safe statistic Switzerland as though that is the only European country to exist. Nice confirmation bias.
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