E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-14-2013, 03:59 PM   #1
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 103
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
Dem Scandals or GOP Scandal Mongering?

So...apparently the WH is awash in "scandals" on a par with Watergate and Iran Contra if one were to listen to Fox News. These would include the Benghazi incident and the IRS conservative group targeting. One might throw in the incipient AG probe of AP reporter phone logs, but that's still rather young and developing.

Are these events:
  1. Actual, serious, Watergate-level administration-killing / impeachable criminal scandals?
  2. Lower-grade political and administrative mismanagement?
  3. Simply the GOP and reflexive trying to manufacture scandal out of low-rent kerfuffle in some desperate bid to further politically hamstring Obama and to divert attention from their dire low-popularity of themselves and their policies?
I would rate it, currently, as about 25% option 2 and 75% option 3.

None of these are, presently, even remotely of the scale or culpability of a Watergate or Iran Contra, regardless of shrill GOP attempts to portray them as such. Indeed, I think they greatly risk overreaching badly on this and further tarnishing what's left of their political credibility outside of GOP circles, ala the Clinton impeachment attempt.

Both the Benghazi affair and the IRS bungle seem to be nothing more than standard grade administrative screw-ups, albeit with some serious consequence in some aspects of the Benghazi affair (inadequate security).

The IRS "affair" seems, at this point, to be little more than desperate local IRS hacks trying to get ahead of an onslaught of 503(c) applications while under pressure to assure that these shady groups are what they claim to be. That and a political tone-deafness that perhaps is understandable with mid-level CPA types rather than the polished political sensibilities of Washington higher-ups.

Option 3 I think explains most of the noise that's being manufactured around these affairs - that and the presses love of controversy, any controversy, for its own sake, regardless of actual merit. The GOP seems to have a genetic go-for-the-throat instinct, especially when otherwise cornered by rock bottom public regard, existential fear of demographic extinction and lack of any broadly popular (outside their own echo chambers) new policies.

Their own recent 2012 autopsy fairly bluntly exposes these weaknesses though only comes up with some modest and surface solutions to them, all of which risk fracturing an increasingly fractious base. So, rather than risk civil war by turning their guns on themselves, try, desperately, to turn them outward to your mortal enemies, Obama and the Dems.

Unfortunately for the GOP, I think this reflexive blood sport instinct may well be grossly overplayed just as it was with Clinton. Even after that scandal and impeachment attempt, the wooden and weak VP Gore was in fact elected president by the majority of voters with the GOP contender actually only being selected president by dint of election system, legal technicalities and a compliant SCOTUS.

Unless something truly substantive, rather than inflated and trumpeted, turns up beyond pedestrian political clumsiness and administrative mismanagement in these "affairs," the GOP highly risks looking shrill, petty and vindictive and lowering their even now dismal poll numbers.

That said, the Dems do need to get ahead of all this and not appear, or be, simiply reactive and defensive. As is usually the case, its not the original event/scandal itself that causes all the damage but rather, the subsequent reactions to them. This is especially true in second terms when administrations get both complacent and self-possessed, and just a bit weary overall.

Last edited by Rhumb; 05-14-2013 at 04:00 PM.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:08 PM   #2
Lair
Modded ///Member
 
Lair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sea level
Posts: 321
My Ride: e90, cheap Boxster
I'll have #3 with a side of bacon.
__________________

Quote:
It's the best years of your life they want to steal.
Congratulations.
Lair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:22 PM   #3
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Here comes the group think denial circle jerk!
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:26 PM   #4
5ynd1cat3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 476
My Ride: swagger wagon
Re: Dem Scandals or GOP Scandal Mongering?

In b4 deflection to iraq. Pew! Pew!

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
5ynd1cat3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:28 PM   #5
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Here comes the group think denial circle jerk!
As opposed to the group think accusation circle jerk?
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:35 PM   #6
Lair
Modded ///Member
 
Lair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sea level
Posts: 321
My Ride: e90, cheap Boxster
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
As opposed to the group think accusation circle jerk?


I'm co-opting that.
__________________

Quote:
It's the best years of your life they want to steal.
Congratulations.
Lair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:35 PM   #7
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Dem Scandals or GOP Scandal Mongering?

lol people assuming the govt is a unitary actor whose current leader perpetuates all evil doings.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:39 PM   #8
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lair View Post


I'm co-opting that.
It's a close sister to the group think conspiracy theorist circle jerk.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:50 PM   #9
VaderDave
Invictus
 
VaderDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posts: 11,896
My Ride: 330CiC ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
It's a close sister to the group think conspiracy theorist circle jerk.
I'm uncomfortable with any post that has the words "sister" and "circle jerk" in the same sentence.
VaderDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 05:37 PM   #10
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderDave View Post
I'm uncomfortable with any post that has the words "sister" and "circle jerk" in the same sentence.


Fair point
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 06:17 PM   #11
rdsesq
ouroboros autorotica
 
rdsesq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cali...the only state that matters
Posts: 1,452
My Ride: 2002 330i
Watergate is on a whole different level.
Iran-Contra, Whitewater, Haliburton, Benghazi, etc.... don't even come close.

The top 3 scandals in the last 50 years.

1: Watergate
2: Watergate
3: Watergate

The rest are just also-rans.
__________________
"The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon."
-- Dr Manhattan

quis custodiet ipsos custodes
rdsesq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 03:41 PM   #12
phrozen06
NA V8
 
phrozen06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 39°27'33"N 77°58'04"W
Posts: 7,523
My Ride: E46, E92 M3, R32 VW
Send a message via Yahoo to phrozen06
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsesq View Post
Watergate is on a whole different level.
Iran-Contra, Whitewater, Haliburton, Benghazi, etc.... don't even come close.

The top 3 scandals in the last 50 years.

1: Watergate
2: Watergate
3: Watergate

The rest are just also-rans.
agreed
__________________

S65: 4.0 Liter, V8, 414 hp @8,300 rpm, 295 lb/ft @3900 rpm, 445 lb, DOHC, 12:1 C/R, crankshaft 44 lb, wet sump.
2 oil pumps,double vanos variable valve timing, EMS: MSS60, 8 electronically controlled individual throttle butterflies.
4 valves per cylinder, cracked trapezoidal connecting rods, brake energy regeneration. Ion-flow combustion monitoring.

phrozen06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 04:31 PM   #13
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
The GOP is up to no good again. But once a mongerer , always a mongerer. America deserves better
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 04:33 PM   #14
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,024
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Dem Scandals or GOP Scandal Mongering?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Here comes the group think denial circle jerk!
This


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
Wrapping an E46 in Vinyl : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=bronze
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:13 PM   #15
rdsesq
ouroboros autorotica
 
rdsesq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cali...the only state that matters
Posts: 1,452
My Ride: 2002 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Here comes the group think denial circle jerk!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
This
So do either of you think this current scandal is a Watergate-level scandal?
__________________
"The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon."
-- Dr Manhattan

quis custodiet ipsos custodes
rdsesq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:54 PM   #16
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Each thread is essentially the same despite the topics varying.
__________________
Quote:
The whole business of politics has been effectively subcontracted out to a band of professionals. Money people, outreach people, message people, research people. The rest of us are meant to feel like amateurs. In the sense of suckers. We become demotivated to learn more about how things work. We begin to opt out.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use