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Political Talk
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:03 PM   #61
NFRs2000nyc
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Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
eh, boot camp/OCS is different.



and this is not a good example? Or is he displaying crocodile tears? Both, more so the second video, seem pretty "regular joe" to me.



He was regular joe, but it can't end there. That was a good start, but that is more of a feel good speech. I would have liked to see him comment that the chick pleading the 5th let the american people down, and that she will be removed ASAP. Remember, just because these things happen anyway, it doesn't have the same sort of impact as if the POTUS comes out and says it. If Issa gets it done, most will say it's a republican witchhunt again. Obama needs to put the partisan stuff on the side and condem them BY NAME.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:13 PM   #62
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and that she will be removed ASAP.
She has been removed by the new IRS director and is on administrative leave.

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Old 05-23-2013, 10:15 PM   #63
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He was regular joe, but it can't end there. That was a good start, but that is more of a feel good speech. I would have liked to see him comment that the chick pleading the 5th let the american people down, and that she will be removed ASAP. Remember, just because these things happen anyway, it doesn't have the same sort of impact as if the POTUS comes out and says it. If Issa gets it done, most will say it's a republican witchhunt again. Obama needs to put the partisan stuff on the side and condem them BY NAME.
She didn't let me down. Invoking a right is not letting America down. She also claimed that her legal counsel advised her in using her constitutional right. Are people that buy guns or speak out "letting the american people down"?

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False: Anyone who "pleads the Fifth" must be guilty of something.
True: Of course, if police question a suspect, or arrest him, then they have some reason to think he committed a crime.

But, mistakes are sometimes made and innocent people are wrongly accused of crimes. If you're worried about having your words twisted and used against you, you may choose to "plead the Fifth." At the very least, assert your right to have a lawyer present!

Also, it's your right not to testify against yourself. So, juries are typically told not to think a defendant is guilty simply because he chooses not to testify at trial - or to talk to police after being arrested.
http://criminal.lawyers.com/Criminal...-Warnings.html

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Old 05-23-2013, 10:18 PM   #64
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She has been removed by the new IRS director and is on administrative leave.
All good, but it would have been nice if Obama criticized her actions personally. Thats all Im saying. Being yelled at by the store manager isn't the same as getting yelled at by the CEO.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:18 PM   #65
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She didn't let me down. Invoking a right is not letting America down. She also claimed that her legal counsel advised her in using her constitutional right. Are people that buy guns or speak out "letting the american people down"?



http://criminal.lawyers.com/Criminal...-Warnings.html
From what I understand, once she started talking about things she "didn't do," she lost that right.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:20 PM   #66
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From what I understand, once she started talking about things she "didn't do," she lost that right.
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False: You can't change your mind if you waive your Fifth Amendment rights by answering an investigator's questions.
True: Just because you waive your rights and agree to be questioned doesn't mean you must answer all questions. At any time you may change your mind and choose to remain silent. In that case, the police must stop questioning you.

Likewise, if at first you talk to police without an attorney and then change your mind, police must stop questioning you until your attorney arrives. Once she arrives, you have to be given the chance to talk with her before questioning begins.

Also, under a 2010 US Supreme Court case, police may begin questioning a suspect again 14 days after the first interrogation ends, even if he asserted his rights to remain silent and to have an attorney present for the first interrogation.
http://criminal.lawyers.com/Criminal...-Warnings.html

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Old 05-23-2013, 10:21 PM   #67
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All good, but it would have been nice if Obama criticized her actions personally. Thats all Im saying. Being yelled at by the store manager isn't the same as getting yelled at by the CEO.
So if they technically don't know what she did wrong, then how can anyone say anything yet,? Do we really know who did what and when, by name?

However, I'm sure Obama, by now, and as he said in the video I posted, he has seen/read the IG's investigation. So I would tend to agree he knows findings of fact, and who, by name, is responsible for what. Maybe that's why Lois Lerner was relieved.

But member badfast makes a point, just because someone pleads the 5th, doesn't make them guilty. Sure, I do agree it invokes suspicion. I would be skeptical too.

Remember though, Lois Lerner is the one who first went public with this (reportedly). In my mind, she tried to do the right thing and, well, perhaps fell on her sword.

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Old 05-23-2013, 10:33 PM   #68
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IANAL, but it seems the discrepancy is the criminal aspect. She wasn't charged with a crime, no miranda, none of that. This was a congressional questioning (her boss if you will) about her job. I don't know how this particular incident fits into the law.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:34 PM   #69
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So if they technically don't know what she did wrong, then how can anyone say anything yet,? Do we really know who did what and when, by name?

However, I'm sure Obama, by now, and as he said in the video I posted, he has seen/read the IG's investigation. So I would tend to agree he knows findings of fact, and who, by name, is responsible for what. Maybe that's why Lois Lerner was relieved.

But member badfast makes a point, just because someone pleads the 5th, doesn't make them guilty. Sure, I do agree it invokes suspicion. I would be skeptical too.

Remember though, Lois Lerner is the one who first went public with this (reportedly). In my mind, she tried to do the right thing and, well, perhaps fell on her sword.
All valid points. I guess there is nothing left to do but make some popcorn and watch this sh!tstorm unfold.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:38 PM   #70
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IANAL, but it seems the discrepancy is the criminal aspect. She wasn't charged with a crime, no miranda, none of that. This was a congressional questioning (her boss if you will) about her job. I don't know how this particular incident fits into the law.
If this is not a criminal inquiry or a legal proceeding, than who cares? What is the purpose of the questioning?
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:41 PM   #71
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If this is not a criminal inquiry or a legal proceeding, than who cares? What is the purpose of the questioning?
Well, it seems to me that it will eventually turn into a criminal proceeding, once they can squarely place the blame on someone (whoever issued the order to scrutinize certain groups.) For now, they are not charging anyone with anything and are looking for information (like your boss asking you who stole the case of Jack Daniels from the liquor room) leading to the individual involved. If the flow of information is obstructed (as is the case with this woman) then they might find something to charge her with to get her to talk...who knows.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:46 PM   #72
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Well, it seems to me that it will eventually turn into a criminal proceeding, once they can squarely place the blame on someone (whoever issued the order to scrutinize certain groups.) For now, they are not charging anyone with anything and are looking for information (like your boss asking you who stole the case of Jack Daniels from the liquor room) leading to the individual involved. If the flow of information is obstructed (as is the case with this woman) then they might find something to charge her with to get her to talk...who knows.
It would than seem it would be in her best interest (as recommenced by legal) to plead the fifth. She certainly would not want to end up as collateral damage. I, personally, don't think it would be in her interest to talk without something in return.

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Old 05-23-2013, 10:58 PM   #73
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Top IRS official pleads the 5th rather than answer questions.

"I have done nothing wrong. I refuse to answer questions based on the fact I may incriminate myself."

Wat?


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Old 05-24-2013, 12:03 AM   #74
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This is about Miranda warnings, LOL. Laymen smh
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:25 AM   #75
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Top IRS official pleads the 5th rather than answer questions.

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"I have done nothing wrong. I refuse to answer questions based on the fact I may incriminate myself."

Wat?


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I'm not defending her, but generally speaking, the appearance of guilt doesn't make one guilty. But I do agree it invites suspicion.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty in this country? Or do we let the media be the judge of that and public opinion?


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Old 05-24-2013, 08:22 AM   #76
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This is about Miranda warnings, LOL. Laymen smh

Perhaps it would benefit you to actually read the articles instead of only the title. How are you even a "lawyer"?

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Old 05-24-2013, 08:27 AM   #77
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Perhaps it would benefit you to actually read the articles instead of only the title. How are you even a "lawyer"?
You linked a 5th grade level website, stop playing lawyer and start looking for a job you failure.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:35 AM   #78
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I'm not defending her, but generally speaking, the appearance of guilt doesn't make one guilty. But I do agree it invites suspicion.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty in this country? Or do we let the media be the judge of that and public opinion?


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I don't remember anyone accusing her of anything....yet. She has a department to answer for, and if there is malfeasance, she needs to own up to up. While pleading the 5th when accused of a crime (legally speaking) doesn't make one guilty, pleading the 5th when you are NOT accused of a crime sure as hell does....in my opinion anyway.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:35 AM   #79
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You linked a 5th grade level website, stop playing lawyer and start looking for a job you failure.
So the "lawyer" doesn't even understand law on a 5th grade level. Sounds like you are the failure that needs to start looking for a job.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:37 AM   #80
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So the "lawyer" doesn't even understand law on a 5th grade level. Sounds like you are the failure that needs to start looking for a job.
lol, hold on...on the way to my office. Ever see one? Want me to get you a job doing copying for me? Sounds up to your intellect level.
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