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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 05-24-2013, 11:17 PM   #21
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I'm not worried. No ones getting within 50 feet of my house without being on multiple video cameras and not inside it without an alarm going off.

If I hear something alarming enough, I grab my 820 Lumen Fenix TK-35 first and then make a choice to go handgun or long gun. Wife grabs the weapon of her choice
Got high def cams runnning on the property, my motion alarms got wiped out (independent of my security system) cleaning up the yard after the flood from sandy. Do you recommend some good monitions? I want to put them by the beach, and certain areas where people are most likely to pull up by boat and walk on the property.

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Old 05-27-2013, 09:32 PM   #22
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We have a designated closet to go hide in. The closet has food, water, cell phone, and board games we can play while we wait for the police to show up.

Locking the closet door from the inside automatically triggers a call to 911. We're practically safe the second the door closes.

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Old 05-27-2013, 09:34 PM   #23
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We have a designated closet to go hide in. The closet has food, water, cell phone, and board games we can play while we wait for the police to show up.

Locking the closet door from the inside automatically triggers a call to 911. We're practically safe the second the door closes.
Literally spit my drink out.

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Old 05-27-2013, 09:41 PM   #24
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Literally spit my drink out.

Better be monopoly... You'll have time to kill
In all seriousness, last year a car pulled up to my house around 10pm, they killed the lights and engine. I didn't think much of it until no one exited the vehicle. I was watching from inside and could see 3 individuals that clearly didn't belong in my neighborhood. I dialed 911 just as a precaution and prepared just in case something happened. Dispatch told me they would send a patrol unit. After literally waiting 45 minutes the car just left, no patrol car was seen.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:46 PM   #25
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When something goes bump in the night.

Damn mother in law came in the house around 4:30 am last night (unannounced, lost her house keys, we have a key pad). My GSD alerted and woke me up. Grabbed the G19, cleared the house, she never saw me lol.


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Old 05-28-2013, 06:41 AM   #26
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Damn mother in law came in the house around 4:30 am last night (unannounced, lost her house keys, we have a key pad). My GSD alerted and woke me up. Grabbed the G19, cleared the house, she never saw me lol.


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Dang 4:30, is she out "cougar-ing"

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Old 05-28-2013, 08:38 AM   #27
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+1, but barking dogs surely are a bit of a deterrent to a bad guy. i could only hope that the dogs would occupy them until i can put a few 5.56 rounds into their chest and face.
All you'll do is piss them off or not hit them. A rifle is the last thing you want up close and under stress.

00 3.5 magnum buckshot is my round of choice. Dead people can't sue you or commit future crimes. And I know I'll hit them. They will be in 2 pieces.

But usually I don't grab a gun if I hear a sound. Could just be a family member or the dog. If the dog flips sh!t then I grab the shotgun.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:49 AM   #28
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All you'll do is piss them off or not hit them. A rifle is the last thing you want up close and under stress.

00 3.5 magnum buckshot is my round of choice. Dead people can't sue you or commit future crimes. And I know I'll hit them. They will be in 2 pieces.

But usually I don't grab a gun if I hear a sound. Could just be a family member or the dog. If the dog flips sh!t then I grab the shotgun.
Have you seen the ballistics data of a 5.56? Pretty terrifying. And an AR-15 is compact enough to use in tight(er) places, like hallways in a home. Buckshot could result in more collateral damage than you'd want, too.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:02 AM   #29
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Have you seen the ballistics data of a 5.56? Pretty terrifying. And an AR-15 is compact enough to use in tight(er) places, like hallways in a home. Buckshot could result in more collateral damage than you'd want, too.
Who cares, 1 shot = absolute carnage with a 3.5 magnum from a short barrel gun. Theres also a better chance of hitting someone.

That 5.56 will easily carry through a wall into your neighbors house. Collateral damage will happen regardless. You can repair a house, not a lost family members life.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:08 AM   #30
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Who cares, 1 shot = absolute carnage with a 3.5 magnum from a short barrel gun. Theres also a better chance of hitting someone.

That 5.56 will easily carry through a wall into your neighbors house. Collateral damage will happen regardless. You can repair a house, not a lost family members life.
You don't think a 3" magnum load from a SG will travel through a house?
As far as movement, most shotguns are longer than AR15s (18.5 vs. 16")
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:10 AM   #31
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We have a designated closet to go hide in. The closet has food, water, cell phone, and board games we can play while we wait for the police to show up.

Locking the closet door from the inside automatically triggers a call to 911. We're practically safe the second the door closes.
Unless your closet is designed as an actual safe room you are just making it easy for an intruder to kill you all very easily.

I really hope for the safety of you and your family that your plan involves more than a phone call and board games while you wait around for help.

No one is saying you have to be superman, but it sounds like you're just waiting for the police to come bail you out. You've said that you called and had no police respond before, so that is a GIANT red flag that you need to take matters into your own hands.

There are a lot of great ideas to leverage here, so ask questions if you're unsure how to start coming up with a plan.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:17 AM   #32
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Re: When something goes bump in the night.

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All you'll do is piss them off or not hit them. A rifle is the last thing you want up close and under stress.

00 3.5 magnum buckshot is my round of choice. Dead people can't sue you or commit future crimes. And I know I'll hit them. They will be in 2 pieces.

But usually I don't grab a gun if I hear a sound. Could just be a family member or the dog. If the dog flips sh!t then I grab the shotgun.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:19 AM   #33
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When something goes bump in the night.

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Have you seen the ballistics data of a 5.56? Pretty terrifying. And an AR-15 is compact enough to use in tight(er) places, like hallways in a home. Buckshot could result in more collateral damage than you'd want, too.
I don't want to bring up home defense rounds again but honestly neither of these rounds are ideal. Especially if you live in apartment or have family, a 5.56 round will do more harm than good.


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Old 05-28-2013, 10:53 AM   #34
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I check the cameras on my phone or tablet.. then proceed from there
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:13 AM   #35
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Re: When something goes bump in the night.

I listen for unusual noise, when I hear em, I grab my night vision goggles, my .45 an extra clip and creep up on em, then pow pow pow pow there dead, I then proceed to call the cops and let em clean up my mess

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Old 05-28-2013, 12:12 PM   #36
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grab the glock and go check it out. I live in a fairly rural area and it isn't uncommon for people to vandalize your property because they were drunk in the woods and wandered near your home or they do it for more malicious reasons.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:28 PM   #37
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I turn on the bat signal then go back to sleep.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:51 PM   #38
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When something goes bump in the night.

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I listen for unusual noise, when I hear em, I grab my night vision goggles, my .45 an extra clip and creep up on em, then pow pow pow pow there dead, I then proceed to call the cops and let em clean up my mess

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:16 AM   #39
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Anyone saying 5.56/.223 loads are bad for HD needs to go start reading. According to EVERY reliable ballistics expert, they wholeheartedly disagree and consider the 5.56/.223 to be an excellent HD and urban duty load.

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All you'll do is piss them off or not hit them. A rifle is the last thing you want up close and under stress.

00 3.5 magnum buckshot is my round of choice. Dead people can't sue you or commit future crimes. And I know I'll hit them. They will be in 2 pieces.
Really? I have several friends who have dumped bad guys with .223 duty loads. At close range. When you're up close, the rifle is exactly what you want. An NSR to the chest will put anyone down. I can 7rds out of an AR faster than I can fire 2 buckshot rounds out of a shotgun. I have tested this.

But having said that, your ballistic information is wrong. Shotgun rounds work through actual penetration, not additional Kinetic Energy (KE) deposit. As such, the only way to kill someone with a shotgun load is to actually cause enough damage to stop the brain or the heart. Remember that threats are incapacitated through 4 different methods:
Immediate Incapacitation (CNS/neurological shut down)
Rapid Incapacitation (hypovolemia through loss of blood pressure)
Psychological Incapacitation (bad guy gives up)
Incapacitating Trauma (pelvic girdle shot)

The only reliable way to "stop" a threat is immediate physiological incapacitation, which requires a shot to the central nervous system (CNS) above the heart, and leading up to and including the brain stem. The next best option is rapid incapacitation, which is where you damage the internal organs and vascular system enough to cause the blood pressure to drop to a level where the body cannot function and it shuts down. This is why we train to shoot someone to the ground. That entails using follow-up shots. Shotguns are not ideal for follow-up shots because of the high recoil and slow rate of fire with defense grade buckshot or slug loads, which are similar in recoil. Your first shot may hit the mark, but you need to be prepared to shoot again. You can hit a lung or shoulder too, which would require a follow-up shot. If I have to do a follow-up shot, I'd rather have a rifle.

Additionally with the rifle, rifle projectiles travel at a high enough velocity they they cause damage with both projectile penetration, as well as temporary crush cavity/cavitation as a result of KE. Something shotguns don't do. This means that you do additional damage with rifle rounds that you don't do with a shotgun round.

Oh, and a dead person can't sue, but their family can. Keep that in mind. If you shoot someone, assume that someone will try and sue you. One of my buddies just had the civil suit against him rejected by a grand jury, but it was still a hassle. It was done by the family.



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Who cares, 1 shot = absolute carnage with a 3.5 magnum from a short barrel gun. Theres also a better chance of hitting someone.

That 5.56 will easily carry through a wall into your neighbors house. Collateral damage will happen regardless. You can repair a house, not a lost family members life.
There is less of a chance of hitting someone with 3.5" magnum shotguns, but I was unaware they made quality buckshot loads in 3.5" magnum lengths. Most ideal loads are 2.75" or 3" loads. The best shotgun load is Federal Tactical 1-Buck. After that, Federal Tactical and Hornady TAP buckshot. All are 2.75" or 3".
If you're advocating using 3.5" birdshot, good luck with that. One of my coworkers is a goose hunting guide, and the other guy he guides with took a 3.5" steel BBB shot to the upper back at ~2 feet after he was shot by a very elderly client. That guy lived and was able to walk to the truck to get to the hospital.
Also, Dick Cheney can attest to the lack of lethality for birdshot. Ballistically, birdshot is only lethal to about 15ft, and that's for the heavier stuff. The lighter stuff is even closer. Not sure I want those ballistics for home defense. My living room is 22ft wide...

But if you shoot someone with a shotgun, you can pretty much count on over-penetration. Shotgun loads in buckshot and slug heavily over-penetrate.
Rifle loads on the other hand have a lower propensity for over-penetration. Using FMJ loads is plain stupidity. If you use a rifle for HD, you use a quality duty or defense load like a JSP or BTHP/OTM design. According to FBI Ballistic Research Facility data (FBI BRF is the foremost authority in the WORLD on terminal ballistics), duty grade rifle rounds have a lower propensity for over-penetration than pistol rounds. Shotgun loads are more than pistol. In looking at LE officer-involved shootings, more per-capita rifle rounds are recovered inside the body than are pistol or shotgun rounds.

This data that the FBI BRF develops is also supported by similar testing by the IWBA, US Navy Crane/NSWC, USSOCOM, USMC, LAPD, numerous other agencies, and every major ammunition manufacturer ranging from ATK (Federal/Speer) to Hornady to Winchester to Remington. This is why you see special operations personnel using Mk318 Mod.0 SOST OTM and 70gr Optimal OTM "Brown Tip" loads instead of the general issue M855A1. This is also why the FBI HRT, SWAT and field agents use a barrier blind 5.56x45mm 62gr JSP load made by Federal (Tactical 62gr TBBC, p/n: XM556FBIT3)

But keep in mind we're talking about 5.56, not .338 Lapua or .300 Win Mag. If it exits your target, or you miss, chances of it exiting your house depend on where it strikes and WHAT it strikes. Exteriors tend to do a lot to destroy rifle rounds. In fact, the FBI BRF has actually tested several rifle rounds through exterior walls, and the performance for .223/5.56 loads are never enough to reliably kill a human being. That's with a straight shot from outside straight inside the house through an exterior wall. If you shoot through your wall, outside, and then the bullet hits your neighbor's house, it won't penetrate. Unless you live in Somalia and your walls are corrugated sheet metal, or you live in a Mexican favela in a cardboard box.

But again, you should be using quality loads. Only ignorant people use penetrator and AP ammo for home defense. Anyone using M855 for HD is a smacktard.


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I don't want to bring up home defense rounds again but honestly neither of these rounds are ideal. Especially if you live in apartment or have family, a 5.56 round will do more harm than good.
See my post above. 5.56 and .223 loads are far more ideal than pistol or shotgun loads. If you live in an apartment and have thin walls, then use Federal Tactical TRU ammunition. Either the T223E 55gr Sierra BTHP or T223F 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip will do very well. Just avoid the Hornady TAP Urban.
But again, old mythology and hyperbole vilify the .223/5.56 for HD purposes. Keep in mind that there is a reason why more and more LE agencies are getting AR15 rifles, and using them in urban areas. It's not for body armor penetration, it's for better ballistics that are safer, as well as higher accuracy, higher ammo load, and faster follow-up shots.



For your viewing pleasure, I HIGHLY recommend that everyone here watch this to get an understanding of the differences in penetration between rifle rounds, and then look at the supplied shotgun options.


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Old 06-06-2013, 04:38 PM   #40
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