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Old 11-26-2014, 10:20 AM   #1
Chris3Duke
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LEO Debate (paging M3Inline6 and JonJon)

Quote from a liberal friend:

It is always incumbent on the police officer to preserve the life of all parties involved. That is the very center of their mandate. The group of people who's job it is to kill the other people are called soldiers. That's not the same thing as a police officer. That is a critically important distinction. It's loss here is the core of the problem. It's what is expected of a police officer. If they aren't up to the responsibility of preserving the life of everybody, not just the ones who aren't perps, they have no place on the police force.

Anyone agree with that? I have a hard time believing they teach that at the Academy.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:27 AM   #2
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I would reduce that to this...

It is both the police officer's job and the soldier's job to preserve the peace! When there are threats to that peace lives may have to be taken to defend the peace.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:27 AM   #3
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:31 AM   #4
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:33 AM   #5
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I would reduce that to this...

It is both the police officer's job and the soldier's job to preserve the peace! When there are threats to that peace lives may have to be take to defend the peace.
pretty much what I was thinking. OP - what was the argument your friend was trying to make?
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:35 AM   #6
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I think it carries weight and officers should spare lives whenever doable. That said, I understand not every situation allows that to happen and rightfully so, lives must be taken to prevent harm to the officer or any other individual in the vicinity. In that sense, an officer is preserving the lives of others from the perp. Not everybody deserves to live. I tend to be a humanitarian but law-breakers in society should understand the consequences of their actions, up to and including death. Your friend sounds naive to real world situations.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:46 AM   #7
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:54 AM   #8
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pretty much what I was thinking. OP - what was the argument your friend was trying to make?
It's obviously about the Wilson-Brown case. He was basically saying that regardless of whether Wilson was legally allowed to shoot Brown, that Wilson was either incompetent or a coward for needing to resort to shooting an unarmed man. Wilson was a decently sized guy himself (6-4, 215), had training, a vehicle, had radioed for backup, and probably had some non-lethal weapons (taser / baton). By the time he shot him, Brown had fled, and was (in the view of my friend) obviously unarmed.

My point was that Wilson was in hostile territory (Brown had a friend with him, and it easily could have become a 2 on 1), and had every right to put his life before the perp's. He had no legal or moral responsibility to try to subdue him with non-lethal means.

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Old 11-26-2014, 11:01 AM   #9
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It's obviously about the Wilson-Brown case. He was basically saying that regardless of whether Wilson was legally allowed to shoot Brown, that Wilson was either incompetent or a coward for needing to resort to shooting an unarmed man. Wilson was a decently sized guy himself (6-4, 215), had training, a vehicle, had radioed for backup, and probably had some non-lethal weapons (taser / baton). By the time he shot him, Brown had fled, and was (in the view of my friend) obviously unarmed.

My point was that Wilson was in hostile territory (Brown had a friend with him, and it easily could have become a 2 on 1), and had every right to put his life before the perp's. He had no legal or moral responsibility to try to subdue him with non-lethal means.
Officer Wilson was not carrying a taser at the time of the incident.

At the time that Wilson shot Brown, Brown was charging at Wilson after already showing threat of force. Wilson, at the time, did not know if Brown was armed, or not.


I agree that LEO's do have a responsibility to preserve life. However, that responsibility is not above their own right to self preservation.
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:07 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Chris3Duke View Post
It's obviously about the Wilson-Brown case. He was basically saying that regardless of whether Wilson was legally allowed to shoot Brown, that Wilson was either incompetent or a coward for needing to resort to shooting an unarmed man. Wilson was a decently sized guy himself (6-4, 215), had training, a vehicle, had radioed for backup, and probably had some non-lethal weapons (taser / baton). By the time he shot him, Brown had fled, and was (in the view of my friend) obviously unarmed.

My point was that Wilson was in hostile territory (Brown had a friend with him, and it easily could have become a 2 on 1), and had every right to put his life before the perp's. He had no legal or moral responsibility to try to subdue him with non-lethal means.
You see that argument come up frequently in gun debates. Someone who carries a gun is a pvssy because they carry, and they obviously don't know how to defend themselves.
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:14 AM   #11
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Everyone has the responsibility to preserve life, but that does not include forsaking the preservation of their own lives or that of other innocents. When reasonable people fear for their life due to the threats of others, they have the right to stop that threat, even if stopping that threat means taking the life of the person who is a threat.

Soldiers aren't given cart-blanch permission to kill, and neither are police. There are situations which make such actions acceptable for both. Often, the rules of engagement for soldiers is actually much more stringent than it would be for you or I here in the United States.
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:16 AM   #12
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I agree that LEO's do have a responsibility to preserve life. However, that responsibility is not above their own right to self preservation.
Bingo.

Use of deadly force is authorized in a situation where there is a fear of death or great bodily harm to yourself or others.

I still don't get why people are protesting a legal and justified shooting. If Brown had beat the sh1t out of Wilson, no one would say or do anything. It would just come out as "welp, that was his job so he knew the risks".

Don't want to get shot? Don't be a dumbass and charge at someone pointing a weapon at you.
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Chris3Duke View Post
Quote from a liberal friend:

It is always incumbent on the police officer to preserve the life of all parties involved. That is the very center of their mandate. The group of people who's job it is to kill the other people are called soldiers. That's not the same thing as a police officer. That is a critically important distinction. It's loss here is the core of the problem. It's what is expected of a police officer. If they aren't up to the responsibility of preserving the life of everybody, not just the ones who aren't perps, they have no place on the police force.

Anyone agree with that? I have a hard time believing they teach that at the Academy.
Tell him to hush!


The potential/probability that a life will need to be taken comes with the job, and it's always in the interest of preserving the life of someone or a group of people (..barring explicit/illicit criminal activity on behalf of the officer(s)). The forum has done a good job of illustrating the finer points. Well done!

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Old 11-26-2014, 02:06 PM   #14
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Your friend is an idiot.
Do you really want me to respond with facts and reality?
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:11 PM   #15
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:12 PM   #16
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Cops have a responsibility to chase down 330i's that take the same route to work every day and are driven by wasp.
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:27 PM   #17
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Cops have a responsibility to chase down 330i's that take the same route to work every day and are driven by wasp.
But do they have the responsibility to take his dignity?
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:25 PM   #18
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Cops have a responsibility to chase down 330i's that take the same route to work every day and are driven by wasp.
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But do they have the responsibility to take his dignity?
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:28 PM   #19
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Thanks for cleaning up the streets Officer Wilson.
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:55 PM   #20
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But do they have the responsibility to take his dignity?
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