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Political Talk
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:08 AM   #21
NFRs2000nyc
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You now have to show a picture ID to take the SATs, the LSATs, the MCATs, etc. Just trying to have a level of consistency here.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:09 AM   #22
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You now have to show a picture ID to take the SATs, the LSATs, the MCATs, etc. Just trying to have a level of consistency here.
I have to show ID to vote here in MO.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:10 AM   #23
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How do you know someone is a citizen of the United States of America without checking their passport? Your question implies a person is guilty and must prove their innocence.
I may be off base, but if a person shows ID (DL, non DL, etc.) is it not safe to assume that they are a citizen?

This is an area that I admittedly don't know as much as others on this forum, so I'm genuinely curious.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:14 AM   #24
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I may be off base, but if a person shows ID (DL, non DL, etc.) is it not safe to assume that they are a citizen?

This is an area that I admittedly don't know as much as others on this forum, so I'm genuinely curious.
Unfortunately, no. Many states give illegal immigrants driver's licenses, and permanent residents (green card holders) are legally allowed to partake in all US systems, including all IDs, but are NOT allowed to vote, so a regular driver's license would not be enough. The states would need to modify them by sticking a red C or something to make the DL a more powerful ID. Some states are already doing this, by making "enhanced IDs" that have more info than just your DL, and can be used instead of a passport for travel.

http://www.dmv.ny.gov/edl-faqs.htm



I don't recall of the top of my head, by I believe the American flag on the bottom right corner is the mark of "citizen."
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:18 AM   #25
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Unfortunately, no. Many states give illegal immigrants driver's licenses, and permanent residents (green card holders) are legally allowed to partake in all US systems, including all IDs, but are NOT allowed to vote, so a regular driver's license would not be enough. The states would need to modify them by sticking a red C or something to make the DL a more powerful ID. Some states are already doing this, by making "enhanced IDs" that have more info than just your DL, and can be used instead of a passport for travel.

http://www.dmv.ny.gov/edl-faqs.htm
Here in MO all first time voters (or new residents) have to register with the state to vote. Every major voting cycle they send out a new voter registration card that you bring with you to the polling place. I would assume these initial applications verify citizenship.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:23 AM   #26
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Supreme Court Justices Block Law Requiring Voters to Prove Citizenship

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Does the government provide free paperwork for me to exercise my 2nd amendment right? No. It cost me $40 for the application, $75 for fingerprinting, and $15 for every NICS check everytime I buy a gun...which by the way, is a right. If you are going to have an argument, make sure it's consistent.
I don't like that your state charges so much for you to buy a gun either. VA has a $2 state fee for every purchase.

Remember that those are state fees, not federal.


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Old 06-18-2013, 11:25 AM   #27
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Here in MO all first time voters (or new residents) have to register with the state to vote. Every major voting cycle they send out a new voter registration card that you bring with you to the polling place. I would assume these initial applications verify citizenship.
I honestly don't remember what is on that form. In NY or NJ, you register once, and don't have to do anything unless you move. Some places require you to DE-register when you move. This is where the problems come in. Once you register, no one asks anymore questions ever again. Hell, you can die in a car crash, and some other dude (or even a polling place employee) can just vote for you for the next 55 years.

THis is from the registration form.....

Quote:
I have reviewed my state's instructions and I swear/affirm that:
I am a United States citizen
I meet the eligibility requirements of my state and
subscribe to any oath required.
The information I have provided is true to the best of my
knowledge under penalty of perjury. If I have provided false
information, I may be fined, imprisoned, or (if not a U.S.
citizen) deported from or refused entry to the United States
http://www.eac.gov/assets/1/Document..._en9242012.pdf

Thats the problem, even if the registered person is a citizen, no one checks if thats the person who shows up to the booth. Identity theft can also be a problem. Voter registration is largely a pen/paper deal, and can be easily abused. Someone can steal your identity, register in some remote village in North Dakota, and no one will find out about it for 12 years.

Liquor is ID'd, standardized tests are ID'd, driving is ID'd, etc etc, so I honestly don't see the hardship. Unlike voting/IDs, the gun restriction actually costs law abiding citizens a lot of money.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:25 AM   #28
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I don't like that your state charges so much for you to buy a gun either. VA has a $2 state fee for every purchase.

Remember that those are state fees, not federal.


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An ID is $20-$40 PERIOD. Even your $2 charge is an imposition. Don't get me started on tax stamps, FFL fees (fees aren't charged by the feds, but they impose the burden on you,), suppressor permits, etc etc etc.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:26 AM   #29
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Supreme Court Justices Block Law Requiring Voters to Prove Citizenship

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Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
I honestly don't remember what is on that form. In NY or NJ, you register once, and don't have to do anything unless you move. Some places require you to DE-register when you move. This is where the problems come in. Once you register, no one asks anymore questions ever again. Hell, you can die in a car crash, and some other dude (or even a polling place employee) can just vote for you for the next 55 years.

THis is from the registration form.....


http://www.eac.gov/assets/1/Document..._en9242012.pdf

Thats the problem, even if the registered person is a citizen, no one checks if thats the person who shows up to the booth. Identity theft can also be a problem. Voter registration is largely a pen/paper deal, and can be easily abused. Someone can steal your identity, register in some remote village in North Dakota, and no one will find out about it for 12 years.

Liquor is ID'd, standardized tests are ID'd, driving is ID'd, etc etc, so I honestly don't see the hardship. Unlike voting/IDs, the gun restriction actually costs law abiding citizens a lot of money.
Liquor, driving, and standardized tests are not rights inherent in citizenship.


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Old 06-18-2013, 11:31 AM   #30
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Supreme Court Justices Block Law Requiring Voters to Prove Citizenship

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Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
NICS check is federal, and is $15 EVERY TIME. An ID is $20-$40 PERIOD.
In VA, I pay purchase price of the gun plus a $2 state police fee. No NICS fee.

Edit: plus tax
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:31 AM   #31
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Liquor, driving, and standardized tests are not rights inherent in citizenship.


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Incorrect. Licensing is a privilege restriction placed on a RIGHT to move. Standardized tests are a regulation on the pursuit of happiness. Liquor is a restriction placed on the right to pursue happiness.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:33 AM   #32
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In VA, I pay purchase price of the gun plus a $2 state police fee. No NICS fee.

Edit: plus tax
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Still puts a hole in your original argument...you are paying to exercise a right, simple as that.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:34 AM   #33
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Supreme Court Justices Block Law Requiring Voters to Prove Citizenship

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Incorrect. Licensing is a privilege restriction placed on a RIGHT to move. Standardized tests are a regulation on the pursuit of happiness. Liquor is a restriction placed on the right to pursue happiness.
Your arguments here are really, really, really weak. You can do tons better.


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Old 06-18-2013, 11:34 AM   #34
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Supreme Court Justices Block Law Requiring Voters to Prove Citizenship

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Still puts a hole in your original argument...you are paying to exercise a right, simple as that.
There's a constitutional amendment prohibiting a poll tax of any kind.


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Old 06-18-2013, 11:37 AM   #35
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Incorrect. Licensing is a privilege restriction placed on a RIGHT to move. Standardized tests are a regulation on the pursuit of happiness. Liquor is a restriction placed on the right to pursue happiness.
I need a license to travel?
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:37 AM   #36
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Evolved, thought you might find this interesting...

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/pol...ens-vote/5542/

Someone above mention a slippery slope?
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:39 AM   #37
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Out of curiosity, why does anyone feel it's ridiculous to prove citizenship in order to participate in one of the most important decisions made in this nation?
Honestly, I don't think it's too much to ask. But it does lead to some complications when groups set out to drum up voter registration at places like college campuses, political events, etc. Because most people just don't carry around on a daily basis what would be considered the required documentation for such proof.

All in all, not a big deal. The ruling did not close the door on the subject. It just makes Arizona go back, reassess their approach and solidify their case for a future hearing.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:39 AM   #38
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I need a license to travel?
The freedom of movement act encompasses all movement between the borders of this country, including driving. Driving is a right. To OBTAIN a license is a privilege. Everyone has the right to drive (including a 5 year old) on private property. The state/country can only regulate driving on public roads. You need ID to travel BTW.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:40 AM   #39
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Honestly, I don't think it's too much to ask. But it does lead to some complications when groups set out to drum up voter registration at places like college campuses, political events, etc. Because most people just don't carry around on a daily basis what would be considered the required documentation for such proof.

All in all, not a big deal. The ruling did not close the door on the subject. It just makes Arizona go back, reassess their approach and solidify their case for a future hearing.
Dude it's not like elections are spontaneous. If you know that tomorrow morning you are going to the polls, grab your ID. You don't carry your passport around daily right, but you definitely grab it the morning of your flight to Thailand.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:41 AM   #40
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The freedom of movement act encompasses all movement between the borders of this country, including driving. Driving is a right. To OBTAIN a license is a privilege. Everyone has the right to drive (including a 5 year old) on private property. The state/country can only regulate driving on public roads. You need ID to travel BTW.
To walk, ride a bike or ride the bus you need ID? Not where I live.
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